If the Cavs Rescind...

Then bring back Jae, Zizic, IT, and the 2018 Brooklyn pick.

I'm sure the Cavs will want the Celts to add more to the deal because of the excuse that IT is not 100%.

I say the hell with the Cavs and cancel the deal.

There's still a chance the Celts could end up picking Bagley III and Porter Jr. if the Celts keep the 2018 Nets and Lakers picks.

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Sources: After Isaiah Thomas underwent physical today, Cavs still evaluating injured hip and weighing options w/ completion of Irving deal.
8:04 PM · Aug 25, 2017


Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
If Cavs are simply angling for more of a return here because of IT's hip, this is going to be a brutally tough decision for Danny Ainge.
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Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
yesterday
Source told me this week a renegotiation attempt would be a likely option before anything was rescinded if it reached that point.



bob
MY NOTE: A point to consider also is that if IT's hip is THAT bad then we have serious problems if we take him back on a rescission.

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bobheckler wrote:Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Sources: After Isaiah Thomas underwent physical today, Cavs still evaluating injured hip and weighing options w/ completion of Irving deal.
8:04 PM · Aug 25, 2017


Brian Robb @BrianTRobb
yesterday
If Cavs are simply angling for more of a return here because of IT's hip, this is going to be a brutally tough decision for Danny Ainge.
reply retweet like



Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
yesterday
Source told me this week a renegotiation attempt would be a likely option before anything was rescinded if it reached that point.



bob
MY NOTE:  A point to consider also is that if IT's hip is THAT bad then we have serious problems if we take him back on a rescission.

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It's a given the Celts had a HUGE problem when IT went down with that hip injury.

That's why I kept saying the Celts won that trade, by far!

IT going from the #60 pick in 2011 to becoming All-NBA Second Team last season was a HUGE accomplishment.

But just like Allen Iverson, guys below six feet tall, who play with fearless abandon, will always get beat up in the NBA.

So, again, we already knew we had a big problem when IT injured that hip.
It is what it is.
We just have to move on and hope that the 2018 Nets and Lakers picks end ups the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I cannot believe that Ainge misrepresented Thomas's hip injury, he is too smart for that.  
Talking heads here in Boston think Cavs will ask for more, that the Cavs are not that into IT and he is a one year rental. How the hell much more can they give them.  My guess is they are coming after Tatum. Please Danny, this is a big enough mess, do not give that kid to them along with the pick and IT, Crowder and Zizic

The hell with them, as far as I am concerned they have picked his pockets enough, no more, period!

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I cannot believe that Ainge misrepresented Thomas's hip injury, he is too smart for that.  
Talking heads here in Boston think Cavs will ask for more, that the Cavs are not that into IT and he is a one year rental. How the hell much more can they give them.  My guess is they are coming after Tatum. Please Danny, this is a big enough mess, do not give that kid to them along with the pick and IT, Crowder and Zizic

The hell with them, as far as I am concerned they have picked his pockets enough, no more, period!

Agree!

NO MORE!!!

IT previously stated that the medical staff (Celtics) advised him not to have surgery on the hip.  

This trade is dead if the hip is an issue.  They will want more.  Screw that.

Celtics do not have to make this trade.  Feelings will be hurt but the Golden Egg would come back into play.

The draft pick apparently is the key to this trade but Cleveland is sure to hold Danny's feet to the fire and expect more.

Careful Danny.   If you have to back out of the deal do so and move on.

Dboss

Danny drafted Terry Rozier and have Smart and Larkin at the point.  If and when IT needs surgery it will be next man up.

Under no circumstances should Danny throw more gasoline on the fire.

Dboss

fierce wrote:Then bring back Jae, Zizic, IT, and the 2018 Brooklyn pick.

I'm sure the Cavs will want the Celts to add more to the deal because of the excuse that IT is not 100%.

I say the hell with the Cavs and cancel the deal.

There's still a chance the Celts could end up picking Bagley III and Porter Jr. if the Celts keep the 2018 Nets and Lakers picks.

+1000

dammit..will I need to change my avatar again?

rescinding the trade and bringing back IT and Crowder would be very difficult, Zizic not so much as he hasn't been a part of the past couple seasons here.

I agree that Danny cannot give the Cav's anything more, but if this deal falls apart, I bet Crowder will be moved and IT will be injured and out all year or traded as well.

no way both players will want to be back here after being moved.

fierce wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I cannot believe that Ainge misrepresented Thomas's hip injury, he is too smart for that.  
Talking heads here in Boston think Cavs will ask for more, that the Cavs are not that into IT and he is a one year rental. How the hell much more can they give them.  My guess is they are coming after Tatum. Please Danny, this is a big enough mess, do not give that kid to them along with the pick and IT, Crowder and Zizic

The hell with them, as far as I am concerned they have picked his pockets enough, no more, period!

Agree!

NO MORE!!!

Tatum or Brown or anyone other than a not near future 2nd round pick is a deal breaker. On second thought...not even a 2nd rounder. They need this deal more than we do. Our future is very bright either way! If the hip is really as bad as some think, I feel worse for IT than I do for the C's. The team can and will overcome this.

Ktronic1 wrote:

fierce wrote:

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I cannot believe that Ainge misrepresented Thomas's hip injury, he is too smart for that.  
Talking heads here in Boston think Cavs will ask for more, that the Cavs are not that into IT and he is a one year rental. How the hell much more can they give them.  My guess is they are coming after Tatum. Please Danny, this is a big enough mess, do not give that kid to them along with the pick and IT, Crowder and Zizic

The hell with them, as far as I am concerned they have picked his pockets enough, no more, period!

Agree!

NO MORE!!!

Tatum or Brown or anyone other than a not near future 2nd round pick is a deal breaker. On second thought...not even a 2nd rounder. They need this deal more than we do.  Our future is very bright either way! If the hip is really as bad as some think, I feel worse for IT than I do for the C's. The team can and will overcome this.

True!

The list of ifs just keeps on growing - after 4 years into a rebuild, could a potential Thomas bad hip now force the Celts to extend the remake ANOTHER 4 years or so - waiting, and hoping that the draft picks will get the job done ?
Just wondering.
swish

Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
about 9 minutes ago
Re: deadlines to say yes or no to trades. In all, it's 8 days. 7 days from call to report/do physical and then 24 hours to go over medicals.
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bob
MY NOTE:  The physical has taken, so now they have 24 hours to decide.  That means today. It's make or break (or renegotiate).

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Isaiah will be ok 6 months after surgery...let's say in March, when the Cavs could really use him in the playoffs. I say they do this deal.

worcester wrote:Isaiah will be ok 6 months after surgery...let's say in March, when the Cavs could really use him in the playoffs. I say they do this deal.

This is like being at the altar taking vows and someone shouts out I object.

DA said that IT may not be quite ready at the start of the season so the Cavs knew about that.  Now that their people have completed an examination they may be having second thoughts.  

Worcester do you know if this hip issue is a potential recurring problem.  It just seems like the damage may need to be repaired surgically.  IT could get screwed given his expiring contract situation.  Will a team be willing to do a new deal on an as is basis?

I agree that the deal should still get down.  The Cavs still have Rose to play point and that would give IT time to get his hip issue fixed.  

But what if the Cavs want more compensation?  That is a concern given the assets that were traded.

dboss

Dboss, I can't imagine Isaiah or anyone NOT needing surgery for a torn labrum.

The Cavs will ask for more compensation, whether they were blindsided by IT's condition or not.  It's just negotiating and, to be honest, I'd probably do this if I was them too.  I'd be shocked, shocked!, by the sad state of IT's hip even if I suspected and expected it all along. Maybe that's just how I'm built, though.

Why would the Celtics offer more to get the deal done?

1.  The relationship with IT and Crowder are probably irrevocably damaged, and IT is in his final contract year and any team that is interested in trading for him by the trade deadline knows all this.  That means that Danny will not get great value for IT, not better than he is getting with Kyrie.  Nobody will trade a young all-star for a player they can sign as a free agent in a few months without giving up anybody or anything to get him.

2.  The Celtics want to get under 15 guaranteed contracts so they can bring in another player like Bogut, who fills a specific need we have.  Kyrie replaces IT and we have enough depth at wing without Jae to be ok.  Zizic is a loss because of our thinness at big, not so much because of his, as yet, untested talent.

My gut says this deal gets done with more draft picks going from Boston to Cleveland.  The question is, which one(s)?  Here is a link that lists all our future draft picks.  It has been updated to reflect the Brooklyn pick to Cleveland.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed


bob


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worcester wrote:Dboss, I can't imagine Isaiah or anyone NOT needing surgery for a torn labrum.

Why the hell did the Celtics play this game with IT? He should have had surgery immediately after the playoffs was over. Now he finds himself in a situation where he may not get to play enough to enhance his value.

dboss

bobheckler wrote:The Cavs will ask for more compensation, whether they were blindsided by IT's condition or not.  It's just negotiating and, to be honest, I'd probably do this if I was them too.  I'd be shocked, shocked!, by the sad state of IT's hip even if I suspected and expected it all along.  Maybe that's just how I'm built, though.

Why would the Celtics offer more to get the deal done?

1.  The relationship with IT and Crowder are probably irrevocably damaged, and IT is in his final contract year and any team that is interested in trading for him by the trade deadline knows all this.  That means that Danny will not get great value for IT, not better than he is getting with Kyrie.  Nobody will trade a young all-star for a player they can sign as a free agent in a few months without giving up anybody or anything to get him.

2.  The Celtics want to get under 15 guaranteed contracts so they can bring in another player like Bogut, who fills a specific need we have.  Kyrie replaces IT and we have enough depth at wing without Jae to be ok.  Zizic is a loss because of our thinness at big, not so much because of his, as yet, untested talent.

My gut says this deal gets done with more draft picks going from Boston to Cleveland.  The question is, which one(s)?  Here is a link that lists all our future draft picks.  It has been updated to reflect the Brooklyn pick to Cleveland.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed


bob


.

Bob

More picks to them turns my stomach for making the deal. I was already on the ledge.

Fans are not going to be happy about this. It would be a fleecing!

dboss

dboss wrote:

bobheckler wrote:The Cavs will ask for more compensation, whether they were blindsided by IT's condition or not.  It's just negotiating and, to be honest, I'd probably do this if I was them too.  I'd be shocked, shocked!, by the sad state of IT's hip even if I suspected and expected it all along.  Maybe that's just how I'm built, though.

Why would the Celtics offer more to get the deal done?

1.  The relationship with IT and Crowder are probably irrevocably damaged, and IT is in his final contract year and any team that is interested in trading for him by the trade deadline knows all this.  That means that Danny will not get great value for IT, not better than he is getting with Kyrie.  Nobody will trade a young all-star for a player they can sign as a free agent in a few months without giving up anybody or anything to get him.

2.  The Celtics want to get under 15 guaranteed contracts so they can bring in another player like Bogut, who fills a specific need we have.  Kyrie replaces IT and we have enough depth at wing without Jae to be ok.  Zizic is a loss because of our thinness at big, not so much because of his, as yet, untested talent.

My gut says this deal gets done with more draft picks going from Boston to Cleveland.  The question is, which one(s)?  Here is a link that lists all our future draft picks.  It has been updated to reflect the Brooklyn pick to Cleveland.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed


bob


.

Bob

More picks to them  turns my stomach for making the deal.  I was already on the ledge.

Fans are not going to be happy about this.  It would be a fleecing!

dboss

dboss,

I wasn't a fan of this trade from Square 1, so you're preaching to the choir. At this point, though, bridges have been burned and there may be no other direction to go other than forward.


bob


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IT vould still play well for us in March and not be able to back up the Brinks truck.

I'd consider giving up Rozier or a lower draft pick, but no more. God, what a mess!

Berlin-T

Berlin-T wrote:I'd consider giving up Rozier or a lower draft pick, but no more. God, what a mess!

Berlin-T

Berlin,

NOT Rozier, but I'd consider giving up OUR 2018 pick, since it's going to be somewhere in the 20s anyway. NOT the Laker pick or the Memphis pick.


bob


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then we will be short on guards I really do not want to give up any players, especially YOUNG ones. This just does not sit right. I cannot believe that Danny misrepresented IT's condition. This smells of Cleveland getting a little bit pissed and wanting to hold the Celtics hostage. It has already been said that they wanted that "golden egg" as dboss calls it, Crowder is a good fit here, and they supposedly are shopping Shumpert. Enough is enough. IT will have to get over it.
Crowder will be here for the short haul, gone by February if necessary. Who knows, maybe he will play over his head just to get out.

This is one big mess

worcester wrote:IT vould still play well for us in March and not be able to back up the Brinks truck.

Maybe the ideal situation.