Celtic Roster

RosalieTCeltics wrote:I can remember when Jeff Teague was with Atlanta and killed us. That was a while ago, I hope he still has that instinct

He is not as quick as he used to be but I would still take him over Wanamaker in a foot race.

Time will tell. I have to wonder, Danny is not a stupid man, something smells funny here

Sinus, you are right. Danny salvaged a bad situation of his own making. Teague is an upgrade over Wanny, someone I really appreciated. TT can be a big upgrade over Enes.

Chris Forsberg
@ChrisForsberg_
·
54m
With latest moves, a Boston depth chart reset: Celtics with 16 players fighting for roster spots. Javonte Green’s salary is nonguaranteed until February




Bob
MY NOTE:  This defines it better than my list.  Didn't know Tacko signed a two-way contract.   Hmm, I wonder if that is true or merely assumed.l?  Do two-way players even receive Qualifying Offers?  I was under the impression QOs were for NBA contracts only, not G-League or two-way. Was Waters' QO for the club or two-way?  And Yam Madar is a stash in Israel, so he doesn't consume a roster spot at all, not even a two-way.  Some dubious things here from Forsberg.  

If anybody can answer these questions inquiring minds want to know.

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BobH,

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wcvb.com/amp/article/celtics-sign-rookie-sensation-fan-favorite-tacko-fall-to-two-way-contract-espn-reports/29453091

So apparently it is a 2-way.


KJ

a couple notes for me to catch up here:

I count 15 players under contract right now, who am I missing?

Waters has not been signed as far as I can tell. But someone wrote Tacko signed another two way deal?

I have the total salarys now with the two rookie cap holds at  about $116.5M

that is over the cap but WELL under the $132M tax line.

so the team COULD eat say Edwards salary and keep Green.

Or they can  still bring on another vet minimum deal,there is also talk that the Hayward signing may end up being a sign and trade after all. It seem Rozier may be routed to the Clippers or somewhere else.

while we could not take back Rozier's salary here as it would put us back over the tax line, Ainge ay be able to get  a player or more likely a future draft asset to help facilitate the pieces moving.


I really like the Teague signing, not only because he's a savy vet who can still play. He was fine being used as a BU to Young at the end of last season, so he understands his role now. But more importantly for me, he can step in as a starter IF Kemba's knees don't hold up this year. While I may have personally preferred  Reggie Jackson , Teague is a very solid pick up here.

k_j_88 wrote:BobH,

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wcvb.com/amp/article/celtics-sign-rookie-sensation-fan-favorite-tacko-fall-to-two-way-contract-espn-reports/29453091

So apparently it is a 2-way.


KJ

that link was form a story last season.

Both of them got QO making them restricted FA. It looks like Green will be gone but may get a few dollars as he is waived.

Danny probably wants to go another year with his drafted rookies and Tacko.

The QO for 2-way contracts is for another 2-way contract.

I hope they can either move Edwards deal or just cut him and sign Tacko to the roster.

I like Waters too, but with Pritchard being drafted we don't have room for him now.


I've always thought Waters and Tacko will get a NBA contract somewhere this season.

I am kind of surprised that they did not make a deal to trade Waters, during his time in Maine, I used to watch those games alot and there were GN's who felt he would do well as a backup point guard on some team. I do not see a place for him here, or even Edwards. So they are on thin ice as far as I can see

Edwards may come through. He showed great talent in college and in summer league, but not on the Celts or in G league. Maybe it's head cramps. Make or break year for him.

worcester wrote:Edwards may come through. He showed great talent in college and in summer league, but not on the Celts or in G league. Maybe it's head cramps. Make or break year for him.

It's not like a guy forgets how to shoot. It's familiarity and nerves. Odds are he will snap out of it.

There is nothing I would like better than to see him turn this around. If nothing else it would make him easier to trade. This kid they drafted looks like he could be special, so ? Maybe we could become Miami with young studs off the bench?? Always can wish

We are relying on our young'uns to take a big step up this year.

Bigly.

Romeo, who showed something last year (when he was able to get on the court because of injuries or because others were ahead of him on the depth chart) has to show he's not a rookie anymore.  That's going to be tough because he missed summer league and training camp last year and missed a lot of court time due to injuries and will miss camp and weeks of the season this year too.

Nesmith has to be as advertised, period, and he has to grow up sooner rather than later especially with Romeo still being unavailable.

We had two problems with our bench last year, they didn't score and they were very young.  We've hopefully improved our scoring with the addition of Nesmith and Pritchard (although how many minutes he will be given is a question mark) but we are now even younger with the addition of two rookies and the likely loss of Green.


Bob


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bobheckler wrote:We are relying on our young'uns to take a big step up this year.

Bigly.

Nesmith has to be as advertised, period

Bob

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Agreed. I believe this is could even prove to be the single most important factor in how far the Celtics can go this season.

Not that the play of Thompson and Teague aren't going to be major factors, they will be. My own belief is that even if Romeo turns into someone who can get minutes, he can't supply the shooting Nesmith was drafted for. Pritchard is expected to provide some shooting, if he even starts the season in Boston, and not near the level Nesmith is expected to give. I believe Pritchard will battle Waters to stay with Boston and they both will battle Edwards for a spot and for end of bench minutes.

I'm treating the play of Tatum, Brown, Smart and Walker as givens on this one. We know Theis needs to remain solid and Williams & Williams need to stay healthy and step up too. So...

Nesmith is the de facto Hayward replacement, off the bench, on offense. He needs to fill it up.

No pressure Rook.

In previous year drafts we created separate threads to discuss each pick.  We didn't do that this year.  One reason is because we already had a pre-draft thread which talked about our eventual #14 pick, Aaron Nesmith.  We haven't talked about Pritchard much (a little, but not much considering he is going to make the team), so here's some film on him.  I see Pritchard as direct a threat to Edwards as is possible.  He's a better passer, probably a better defender and a very good shooter as well.  If there are two redundancies on the Celtics roster they are between Grant Williams and Semi, and between Payton Pritchard and Carsen Edwards.  Semi's edge over GWill was his couple of years of NBA experience.  Edwards doesn't really have that over Pritchard, to speak of.  Edwards only played 351 minutes last season.  Of the 17 players on our roster last year (15 Celtics plus 2 two-way) Edwards played the 4th fewest minutes.  Only two-way players Tremont Waters and Tacko Fall (who were contractually limited to how many they could play), and Celtic Vincent Poirier, played fewer minutes than Edwards.  Even Romeo, with all the time he missed with injuries etc, played more minutes than a healthy Carsen Edwards.




Also, here's some film on our #47 pick, Israeli Yam Madar.  He's 19 years old, 6'3", 180# and will be a draft-and-stash for at least one year if not more (if not forever...).  He is being described as another Patrick Beverly, or a poor man's Marcus Smart.  So, he's being touted for his defense.  Highlight films rarely show much defense, it's not as sexy as scoring and passing and these are no different.  His passing, especially fullcourt and pnr, looks pretty good although I always take film of international play with a grain of salt. Passing and defense look better or worse depending upon the quality of the opposition. If the defense is weak then, sure, fast breaking and pnrs are going to look better.  Another consideration is Madar's Israeli military obligations.  Israeli Jews must serve 30 months (for males, 24 for females) in the IDF (Israeli Arabs and Christians may enlist, but are not conscripted like Jews).  There is an "Outstanding Athlete" exemption available which can reduce the length of service, and perhaps Madar will avail himself of this, but I don't think it completely waives service. Regardless, it would be highly unusual for a pick that deep into the 2nd round to make an NBA team.







Bob


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Bob


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Chris Grenham @chrisgrenham
about 18 minutes ago
Looks like Payton Pritchard will wear No. 11, according to his IG bio: pic.twitter.com/BSqpwzXie2




Bob


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https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/how-can-celtics-make-departure-gordon-hayward



How can Celtics make up for departure of Gordon Hayward?



BY  CHRIS FORSBERG  -  4H AGO


Between the NBA Draft and free agency, the Celtics roster underwent an extreme makeover over the course of just four days. But between all the arrivals and departures, the biggest question involves how the C's replace Gordon Hayward on the wing.


RECONSTRUCTING THE ROSTER


The Boston Celtics emerged from free agency’s frenetic opening weekend with a roster that might just be complete. Boston targeted shooting while adding Aaron Nesmith and Payton Pritchard in the draft, then infused some veteran experience onto their bench by adding Tristan Thompson and Jeff Teague via free agency.

Nothing was more important, however, than locking up Jayson Tatum to a five-year, maximum-salary rookie extension that could be worth as much as $195 million. So much of Boston’s title chances hinge on Tatum’s ascension and the Celtics have essentially guaranteed themselves a half decade with Tatum and Jaylen Brown as the core of this team.

There remains one particularly notable void. The departure of Gordon Hayward stripped the Celtics of an All-Star-caliber wing, one who often accentuated the talents of the Jays, and there is no obvious pathway to replacing what Hayward brought the team.

Our lingering question: How will the Celtics fill that void on the wing?


DEPTH CHART RESET

Let’s take a minute to reset Boston’s depth chart. Gone are Hayward, Brad Wanamaker (signed by Golden State), Enes Kanter (traded to Portland), and Vincent Poirier (traded to Oklahoma City). The Celtics are essentially at the 15-man roster limit and that’s before pondering if someone like Tremont Waters deserves to be elevated to the parent roster (some point guard additions might leave the team hoping he’ll consider a second tour in Maine).

Ball-Handlers: Kemba Walker, Marcus Smart, Jeff Teague, Payton Pritchard

Wings: Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Aaron Nesmith, Romeo Langford, Semi Ojeleye, Javonte Green, Carsen Edwards

Bigs: Daniel Theis, Tristian Thompson, Robert Williams, Grant Williams

2-way: Tacko Fall, Tremont Waters

Stash: Yam Madar

That’s essentially a full roster but the Celtics do have some flexibility if they need to maneuver. Green is on a non-guaranteed deal until February and will unfortunately live on the roster bubble while the Celtics explore options. Ojeleye was a potential roster casualty before Hayward’s departure encouraged the Celtics to hold onto him. Edwards needs to show his offensive potential if he wants to protect his roster spot.


FILLING FROM WITHIN A SMART MOVE?

The easiest path to filling Hayward’s starter role is to elevate Smart. He’s started 111 of his 194 appearances during Hayward’s tenure in Boston so the team has plenty of experience with him with the first group. Adding Teague and Pritchard gives Boston other ball-handlers to run with bench units, too.

The question is whether Smart as a starter is the best long-term play for Boston. Smart took four extra shots per game in a starting role. His shooting percentages were almost identical and his scoring did jump from 10.1 points per game off the bench to 14.4 points per game as a starter. The question is whether the Celtics can best accentuate the talents of Tatum and Brown by adding more pure shooting to the first unit. The other question is whether Boston’s best bench production could come from having Smart as an early sub who still finishes games.


COULD NESMITH OR LANGFORD BE A FUTURE STARTER?

This isn’t a start-of-the-season option but we wonder if Nesmith or Langford could eventually slot into Hayward’s starting role. This might be a 2021-22 question given the circumstances. Nesmith hasn’t played a real game since January and will dive into his first NBA season without the benefit of summer league or a true training camp. Langford is still in a cast and will almost certainly be sidelined for the start of the season.

One of those two players eventually developing into a bonafide starter is important for Boston. Nesmith’s shooting could open the floor for the Jays, especially when a non-shooting big like Thompson is on the court. Langford is still working on his shot but has Hayward-like ability to run the pick-and-roll and create for himself and others.

In the bigger picture, getting both of those recent first-round draft picks to develop into core pieces of this team that can grow alongside Tatum and Brown is supremely important to where this team wants to go.


TWO BIG YO?

The Celtics have been synonymous with small ball during the Brad Stevens era but here’s one other potential pathway to filling Hayward’s void: More 2-big lineups.

With Thompson’s arrival, it seems likely that Grant Williams will see more time at the power forward position. If Williams can continue to shoot the way he did inside the bubble, the Celtics could go with some supersized lineups with Brown and Tatum at the 2-3 spots. That’s a lot of size and length on the floor. The Celtics would still have a whole bunch of versatility at the perimeter spots in that scenario.



MAKING EXCEPTIONS

Until the Hornets officially ink Hayward, there remains the possibility that Boston could engage Charlotte on a sign-and-trade deal with hopes of recouping a trade exception equal to Hayward’s first-year salary (so somewhere around $30 million). Boston would likely have to send a sweetener to get Charlotte to consider it but the Celtics aided the Hornets in delivering Terry Rozier via sign and trade last offseason.

A trade exception would allow Boston to take back a player in a trade without having to send out matching salary. If a team was selling off, say, a $15 million wing to clear cap space, the Celtics could swoop in and make a play without having to send, say, Marcus Smart in order to make salaries match.

One hurdle: Having used the full value of the mid-level exception to sign Thompson, the Celtics cannot creep into the luxury tax, which would limit just how big of a splash the team could make in a trade acquisition. Still, it would be an important asset with hopes of adding an impact body.

The Celtics also generated two smaller trade exceptions when they dealt Enes Kanter ($5 million) and Vincent Poirier ($2.5 million), which could be likewise useful in pursuit of a talent above a minimum salary.


MAKING THE HAYWARD SIGNING STING: SIGN BATUM?

Regardless of how the Hayward situation resolves, the Hornets seem likely to use the stretch provision on veteran swingman Nic Batum to clear the necessary cap space for Hayward. While Batum certainly hasn’t lived up to the expectations of his bulky deal in Charlotte, one that was scheduled to pay him $27.1 million this season, he’s an intriguing option at a greatly reduced number. He’s going to get his full salary from Charlotte and the Celtics could offer him up to the $3.6 million biannual exception to spend next season in Boston.

Batum has started 714 of his 789 career games. He appeared in just 22 games last season, starting only three. While his production has dipped, he did shoot 38.9 percent beyond the 3-point arc during the 2018-19 season and has averaged 11.6 points per game for his career. Batum will turn 32 before the start of the new season and there might simply not be anything left in the tank. But he’s familiar with Kemba Walker and could be worth a look, even if just a constant reminder to the Hornets of how much they are paying overall to add Hayward.


FREE-AGENT MARKET IS UNDERWHELMING

The remaining wings on the free-agent market are underwhelming at best.

Does Glen Robinson III do anything for you? Rondae Hollis-Jefferson is out there but shot 21.3 percent beyond the 3-point arc for his career. There’s soon-to-be 40-year-old Kyle Korver, who might be knocking down 3s until he’s 50, but his defense would be a concern.

Could Walker coax Marvin Williams out of early retirement? After electing to join the Bucks over the Celtics last year, Williams isn’t the answer at starter but could be a veteran body off the bench if the Celtics are comfortable with Smart in the starting role.


WAIT AND SEE

Maybe the most prudent path forward is to simply wait and assess options down the road, especially if the Celtics end up with a big trade exception. Boston would be in position to pounce at the trade deadilne without having to gut their roster.

Maybe the team could pry P.J. Tucker out of Houston depending on what happens with the Rockets? Teams that find themselves out of the title hunt will be willing to move impact bodies as teams turn their attention to generating cap space for the 2021 offseason bonanza.


THE BOTTOM LINE

Regardless of the path, the Celtics, as currently constituted, do not have the same ceiling as they did with Hayward on the roster. Maybe he would have never been healthy enough to help them reach that championship potential but it’s undeniable that his departure leaves a talent void.

Some of that could be offset by the development of Tatum and Brown, but as the East beefs up, the Celtics need to keep pace. Boston must continue to explore avenues to adding complementary talent, even if there’s no immediate option to do such.


Bob


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Nic Batum at the biannual exception would be funny. He was one of Charlotte's better players a few seasons ago.

That, or wait and see who else becomes available. Green, Edwards and Semi could go out in a trade or released. Maybe use one of the trade exceptions and it could turn into a nice veteran addition.

I do like the idea of Batum as another cheap quality veteran for the bench. He is nowhere near starter material for a contender, but he is a better than average veteran to come off the bench come playoff time.

I know we all want Nesmith and Langford to just hit the ground running, but let us be realistic - the bench still could use more veterans. If any of Nesmith, Langford can push out Batum out of rotation by season end all the better, but just betting on them to fill the wing positions off the bench (specially if Smart slides into the starting lineup) is more of a "growth" strategy for the near future and not a "win now" plan imo.

Not sure if Batum would take such a diminished role or the vet minimum/bi-annual exception though.

EDIT: gyso beat me to it

John Karalis @RedsArmy_John
about 26 minutes ago
Tacko Fall returns to Boston Celtics on two-way contract: ‘if I could retire here, I probably would’ (report) masslive.com/celtics/2020/1…

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Jared Weiss
Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 29 minutes ago
Tremont Waters is re-signing with the Celtics on a two-way contract, a league source tells @The Athletic.


Bob


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wow, thats great about Tacko and Waters!

I hope we can hang onto them all year.

So Houston gets Cousins for vets minimum. It would have been a nice pickup for Danny having him come off the bench, giving us height - rebounding - scoring - and power in the middle. Is he asleep at the wheel? As I understand it, he mishandled the GH deal without getting anything in return. So much for Bird Rights!

Unless Danny gets a legit center with length 6'11 + we will be a team which is undersized at a critical position, center. Small ball is good in spurts but not for the long run everyday plan. Please do not bring up Dave Cowens...............he was a once in 50 year player to come down the road and play 5" bigger then what he was. A FREAK!

There was talk about a trade with the Timberwolves for K A Towns but that seemed to go away.

We will be soon running into a problem regarding potential shots at #18 because of key players halfway through or more with their contracts, which puts even more pressure on building a 3-5 year window to win with a solid core of star players in their prime locked up.

At this point we do not have a championship caliber team and can very well be behind Brooklyn and Philly in our division.

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