Re: Trade Rumor Thread

[pete]

I won't be disappointed if they do nothing. This team has exceeded my expectations, and I am interested in seeing how they continue to progress.

Pete

[bobheckler]

Adam Himmelsbach: League source says phone lines will be open until the end, but all is still quiet with the Celtics. 2 mins ago – via Twitter AdamHimmelsbach


bob


.

[kdp59]

no one wants to play with Danny anymore...too afraid he is going to burn them, I suppose.



oh yeah, and think just how shattered Howard's ego wil be if he's not dealt!!

STUPERMAN...as Shaq says.

[bobheckler]

no one wants to play with Danny anymore...too afraid he is going to burn them, I suppose.

Kdp,

They're not as stupid as they look.


bob


.

[tjmakz]

TJ and KDP,

You're forgetting about the new contract with TBS/TNT.  It was announced in 2014, but kicks in in 2017.  You have to go back to 2014 to find a good summary, try this one; http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nbas-new-tv-deal-blow-up-the-salary-cap/

It's not that they're not happy now, it's that they've already said they want more through the players union.  The players union has stated publicly they want a larger share from the upcoming deal, which goes into effect for the 2016 - 2017 season.  Players are expected to seek renegotiation early and often.

Love is a great example of the type of player that's going to cost more.  We can remind them they're under contract, but we know how that works out as it is. When the entire union is looking to increase the players slice of the pie, it gets worse.  Everyone is going to be looking to get paid.

In my own opinion, I see Love regressing already.  His inability to hit wide-open shots on a consistent basis this year doesn't leave me feeling we need to pursue him.  Me, I wouldn't want to deal with a forward whose skills are possibly peaked and even in decline, and looking for more money.  And due to the upcoming TV deal, and stated union objectives, he will be looking for more.

I suppose it's a moot point, since the deadline is here and he's not coming anyway, but that's what's behind my reasoning.

Regards

The players can't have it both ways.
Have the security of signing an $80m guaranteed contract, then want more when the new TV money roles in.
Love was smart by signing that long term contract.
LeBron was smart signing the one year deals so he can keep maxing out each year.

Love to Boston would have been a bad move.
Not just because of his contract.
He is really only a PF.
Boston is already strong at the PF position.

[NYCelt]

kdp,

I'm saying players already seek to renegotiate. It's not uncommon, especially within a season or two of their contract ending.

The union, apart from that, has already said they want a bigger piece of the action and changes to the cap will be part of the target.

Regards

[bobheckler]

The Witching Hour has arrived. There may be a few late trades that made it in under the wire but have not been released yet, but it looks like Danny stood pat.


bob


.

[NYCelt]

No Horford, no Love, nobody else.

One more step toward actually using at least the higher pick coming our way.

Good by me.

[beat]

Lance Stephenson to Memphis for Jeff Green


beat

[Matty]

Ugh..

We got us 5,765.3 draft picks to use this summer...

[kdp59]

kdp,

I'm saying players already seek to renegotiate. It's not uncommon, especially within a season or two of their contract ending.

The union, apart from that, has already said they want a bigger piece of the action and changes to the cap will be part of the target.

Regards

I don't think that is correct, but I may be way wrong.

in the NBA I cannot think of any players that renegotiated an existing contract. But if you know of one, could you please show me a link so I can know for sure.

I do not think it is allowed under the CBA, but again I may be very wrong about that.

players and teams do sometimes agree to a buy out( usually for older players who want to play for a better team). but those cases are never about getting MORE money for a player , nor can that be considered renegotiating an existing deal ( at least in the way I think you are talking here).

not trying to be argumentative here at all, I just want to make sure I understand how the current CBA and contracts work correctly in the NBA.

[NYCelt]

kdp,

See below from CBAFaq.com.

Under the current CBA, a contract cannot be renegotiated down, in order to help bring in other players.  There are several ways a contract can be increased, however, depending on length of the contract.  In technical terms, unlike the NFL, NBA contracts cannot be "restructured."  A team wishing to reward a player, or a player who is, for lack of a better way to put it, bitchy enough to get his way, can increase terms of length and payout to the player.

From CBAFaq.com:
1.Can existing contracts be renegotiated?

A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or previous renegotiation (if the previous negotiation increased any season's salary by more than 4.5%). Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year.

Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap (and cannot increase the player's salary beyond the maximum salary). A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team.

If the player agrees to waive a portion of his trade bonus in order to facilitate a trade (see question number 99), his contract may not be renegotiated for six months following the trade.

Every category of compensation (base salary, likely bonuses, and unlikely bonuses) that are increased in the renegotiated season must also increase in all subsequent seasons of the contract. Raises (and decreases) in subsequent seasons are limited to 7.5% of the salary in the first renegotiated season.

A renegotiated contract can be extended simultaneously (see question number 60). If a player's contract is extended and renegotiated simultaneously in this manner, his salary may not decrease by more than 40% from the last season before the extension (after it is renegotiated) to the first season of the extension. For example, if the salary in the last season of a contract is renegotiated to $10 million and the contract is simultaneously extended, the salary in the first season of the extension cannot be less than $6 million.

Other rules for renegotiations:

A signing bonus cannot accompany a renegotiation unless the contract is extended simultaneously (see question number 60).

A rookie scale contract (see question number 49) cannot be renegotiated.

A contract cannot be renegotiated in conjunction with a trade.
1.In what other ways can an existing contract be modified?

Other than extensions (see question number 60) and renegotiations (see question number 61), a team and player can mutually modify an existing contract as follows:

To alter the amount of compensation protection -- i.e., the guarantee (see question number 64). This is commonly done as part of a buyout (see question number 67).

To eliminate an option or ETO (see question number 59). Note that eliminating an option does NOT constitute illegally shortening a contract, since an option year isn't considered part of the original term of a contract until it is invoked.

To reduce the amount of a trade bonus (see question number 98), but only to the extent necessary to make a trade legal.

To waive set-off (see question number 66), which is commonly done in conjunction with a buyout (see question number 67).

To alter the pay schedule (however, when a contract signed under the current CBA is terminated through the waiver process, the pay schedule is automatically "stretched" -- see question number 113).

To alter the window of time during which an option may be invoked (rare).

To alter the list of outside activities in which the player is allowed to participate (rare).

To change the section of the standard contract that permits the team to suspend the player if the player does not maintain sufficient physical condition.

[dboss]

No Horford, no Love, nobody else.

One more step toward actually using at least the higher pick coming our way.

Good by me.

NYCelt

There we are back on the same page again.

Danny has decided not to spend our assets at the roulette table.  This brings us back to the buy out option for Lee which could put one of the pups closer to the scorer's table.  This does not really change a lot.  We have 7 picks and the Celtics will need to find a way of consolidating them into fewer but higher picks.  The Celts are still way ahead on the rebuild effort with cap space coming up as well as the possibility to add one or 2 really good players from the draft.  

The team right now is fun and ther future is filled with great expectations.

dboss

[NYCelt]

No Horford, no Love, nobody else.

One more step toward actually using at least the higher pick coming our way.

Good by me.

NYCelt

There we are back on the same page again.

Danny has decided not to spend our assets at the roulette table.  This brings us back to the buy out option for Lee which could put one of the pups closer to the scorer's table.  This does not really change a lot.  We have 7 picks and the Celtics will need to find a way of consolidating them into fewer but higher picks.  The Celts are still way ahead on the rebuild effort with cap space coming up as well as the possibility to add one or 2 really good players from the draft.  

The team right now is fun and ther future is filled with great expectations.

dboss

dboss,

So since we're in agreement again...I can go back to just disagreeing with my wife?

Regards

[arambone]

Ugh..

We got us 5,765.3 draft picks to use this summer...

Those draft picks are going to double or triple in value over the next 5 months.

On draft day last year, a late first round pick was traded by Portland for Mason Plumlee.

But today a late first rounder will only get you 25 games of Jeff Green.

And today that Nets pick only would have got us 2 months of Al Horford, or Dwight. In 5 months that pick alone might get you DeMarcus Cousins.

Or it might make Durant or LeBron want to come to Boston.

[NYCelt]

Ugh..

We got us 5,765.3 draft picks to use this summer...

Those draft picks are going to double or triple in value over the next 5 months.

On draft day last year, a late first round pick was traded by Portland for Mason Plumlee.

But today a late first rounder will only get you 25 games of Jeff Green.

And today that Nets pick only would have got us 2 months of Al Horford, or Dwight. In 5 months that pick alone might get you DeMarcus Cousins.

Or it might make Durant or LeBron want to come to Boston.

Valid point.

[sinus007]

Hi,
Please - no Lebron in Boston. He'll ruin the re-build

AK

[tjmakz]

Ugh..

We got us 5,765.3 draft picks to use this summer...

Those draft picks are going to double or triple in value over the next 5 months.

On draft day last year, a late first round pick was traded by Portland for Mason Plumlee.

But today a late first rounder will only get you 25 games of Jeff Green.

And today that Nets pick only would have got us 2 months of Al Horford, or Dwight. In 5 months that pick alone might get you DeMarcus Cousins.

Or it might make Durant or LeBron want to come to Boston.

If you look at previous drafts, the opposite of what you are saying has been the case.
Danny tried to trade 6 draft picks to move up 7 spots from #16 to #9 in the 2015 Draft.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25225934/report-celtics-wanted-to-trade-6-picks-for-hornets-no-9-pick

Last year Sacramento wanted the Lakers #2 pick plus Randle plus more for Cousins.

No team was going to give up a top 5 pick for a Dwight or Horford rental.

I hope you are joking about LeBron wanting to come to Boston.

[NYCelt]

TJ,

I can't, or shouldn't, try and put words in arambone's mouth.  But I may not get the chance to check back in here for the next day or two so just my interpretation...

I think he's simply saying that once the position of that pick is known, it may take on a higher value.
A great many things change over the next 5 months concerning that Nets pick and it has potential to increase in value.

My apologies to arambone if I got that wrong.

Regards

[arambone]

If Cleveland didn't have the #1 pick that LeBron knew he could trade for a star, he might not have ended up back there.

I'm not a big LeBron fan, and I think he's generally over the hill now (saving his best for the playoffs), he'd still be a super-valuable free agent score, obviously.

But free agents in a general sense will be more attracted to Boston if they have a valuable top draft pick than if we didn't have it.

Danny can definitely work some Ray Allen/KG type super deal next summer, if the Celtics land a top 2 pick. A pick like that could easily attract a Durant or LeBron, especially because the pick can be traded for another star and fellow friend of the Durant/LeBron/other top free agent.

And even the Dallas and Boston first rounders are going to increase in value over the next 5 months. GMs fall in love with particular prospects, and then they trade for them on draft day/draft week.

Think about how infatuated Michael Jordan was with Kaminsky last year, and how infatuated Danny was with Winslow.

College bball heroes are going to emerge over the next 2 months, and after that several more will emerge as athletic marvels at the Combine, and more will emerge as interview superstars, and some as workout olympians.

Fans of other NBA teams are starting to notice and deeply envy the Celtics and our long term situation. Just wait until draft week. Other fans will give you dirty looks on the street just for wearing a Celtics hat, out of envy.

[dboss]

No Horford, no Love, nobody else.

One more step toward actually using at least the higher pick coming our way.

Good by me.

NYCelt

There we are back on the same page again.

Danny has decided not to spend our assets at the roulette table.  This brings us back to the buy out option for Lee which could put one of the pups closer to the scorer's table.  This does not really change a lot.  We have 7 picks and the Celtics will need to find a way of consolidating them into fewer but higher picks.  The Celts are still way ahead on the rebuild effort with cap space coming up as well as the possibility to add one or 2 really good players from the draft.  

The team right now is fun and ther future is filled with great expectations.

dboss

dboss,

So since we're in agreement again...I can go back to just disagreeing with my wife?

Regards

Absolutely!

dboss

[kdp59]

kdp,

See below from CBAFaq.com.

Under the current CBA, a contract cannot be renegotiated down, in order to help bring in other players.  There are several ways a contract can be increased, however, depending on length of the contract.  In technical terms, unlike the NFL, NBA contracts cannot be "restructured."  A team wishing to reward a player, or a player who is, for lack of a better way to put it, bitchy enough to get his way, can increase terms of length and payout to the player.

From CBAFaq.com:
1.Can existing contracts be renegotiated?

A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or previous renegotiation (if the previous negotiation increased any season's salary by more than 4.5%). Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year.

Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap (and cannot increase the player's salary beyond the maximum salary). A renegotiation can only be used to provide a salary increase -- players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create more cap room for the team.

If the player agrees to waive a portion of his trade bonus in order to facilitate a trade (see question number 99), his contract may not be renegotiated for six months following the trade.

Every category of compensation (base salary, likely bonuses, and unlikely bonuses) that are increased in the renegotiated season must also increase in all subsequent seasons of the contract. Raises (and decreases) in subsequent seasons are limited to 7.5% of the salary in the first renegotiated season.

A renegotiated contract can be extended simultaneously (see question number 60). If a player's contract is extended and renegotiated simultaneously in this manner, his salary may not decrease by more than 40% from the last season before the extension (after it is renegotiated) to the first season of the extension. For example, if the salary in the last season of a contract is renegotiated to $10 million and the contract is simultaneously extended, the salary in the first season of the extension cannot be less than $6 million.

Other rules for renegotiations:

A signing bonus cannot accompany a renegotiation unless the contract is extended simultaneously (see question number 60).

A rookie scale contract (see question number 49) cannot be renegotiated.

A contract cannot be renegotiated in conjunction with a trade.
1.In what other ways can an existing contract be modified?

Other than extensions (see question number 60) and renegotiations (see question number 61), a team and player can mutually modify an existing contract as follows:

To alter the amount of compensation protection -- i.e., the guarantee (see question number 64). This is commonly done as part of a buyout (see question number 67).

To eliminate an option or ETO (see question number 59). Note that eliminating an option does NOT constitute illegally shortening a contract, since an option year isn't considered part of the original term of a contract until it is invoked.

To reduce the amount of a trade bonus (see question number 98), but only to the extent necessary to make a trade legal.

To waive set-off (see question number 66), which is commonly done in conjunction with a buyout (see question number 67).

To alter the pay schedule (however, when a contract signed under the current CBA is terminated through the waiver process, the pay schedule is automatically "stretched" -- see question number 113).

To alter the window of time during which an option may be invoked (rare).

To alter the list of outside activities in which the player is allowed to participate (rare).

To change the section of the standard contract that permits the team to suspend the player if the player does not maintain sufficient physical condition.

Thank you NYCelt

I stand corrected and I can see why you could feel this could come into play in the next season or two in select cases.

thanks again for the info.

[dboss]

If Cleveland didn't have the #1 pick that LeBron knew he could trade for a star, he might not have ended up back there.

I'm not a big LeBron fan, and I think he's generally over the hill now (saving his best for the playoffs), he'd still be a super-valuable free agent score, obviously.

But free agents in a general sense will be more attracted to Boston if they have a valuable top draft pick than if we didn't have it.

Danny can definitely work some Ray Allen/KG type super deal next summer, if the Celtics land a top 2 pick. A pick like that could easily attract a Durant or LeBron, especially because the pick can be traded for another star and fellow friend of the Durant/LeBron/other top free agent.

And even the Dallas and Boston first rounders are going to increase in value over the next 5 months. GMs fall in love with particular prospects, and then they trade for them on draft day/draft week.

Think about how infatuated Michael Jordan was with Kaminsky last year, and how infatuated Danny was with Winslow.

College bball heroes are going to emerge over the next 2 months, and after that several more will emerge as athletic marvels at the Combine, and more will emerge as interview superstars, and some as workout olympians.

Fans of other NBA teams are starting to notice and deeply envy the Celtics and our long term situation. Just wait until draft week. Other fans will give you dirty looks on the street just for wearing a Celtics hat, out of envy.

Rambone

I not sure that free agents are attracted by the potential abilities of a draft pick. What will attract a free agent is the quality of this team, the coaches, GM's fans, City, tradition, etc. and of course the money. Guys in the league don't give a damn about the draft. Established players on good teams atract other players.

dboss

[arambone]

Dboss, it all depends on the draft pick.

You can't lump in all rookies together and say vets don't value any of them.

Personally, I rate Brandon Ingram above Andew Wiggins, or any other wing that has come around since Durant.

And a lot of people are very high on Ben Simmons.

I'm not talking about generic rookies here.

[tjmakz]

Dallas and Boston's 1st round picks probably won't increase in value by draft night.
With Boston's picks last year, they still couldn't move up in the draft.

There's probably going to be a big difference between picks 1-2 compared to 3-4 this year.
This is a two many draft this summer.
Do you think Durant or LeBron are going to care at all if Boston picks at #4 and drafts Jaylen Brown or Kris Dunn?
LeBron is not leaving Cleveland again.
There seem to be more realistic options for Durant, instead of signing with Boston.

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