Ainge Needs An Upgrade

Let's wait for a full medical report on KL before expending any more energy on KL fantasies.

Who spells our wings? You're talking about a bench of a Center, a PF, and a PG (and a PG/SG if smart gets resigned), none of whom, by the way, provides any scoring off the bench.

I think it's clear that healthy KL > healthy JB now.

I sort of expect that JB develops in the next couple of years into a poor man's KL.

Given that, it's very unclear to me that KL > TR, JB, MM, GY, AN and SO, plus likely a pick, all of whom provided valuable minutes during this season's impressive run.

It's worth noting that ESPN's algorithm predicts that your trade makes the celtics much worse (minus 13 games) and the Spurs slightly better (plus 3).

Of course, a significant question mark is free agency. But we'll be hard pressed, financially speaking, to get anyone of significant value if we make this deal, and that includes MS. So it's reasonable to think that your deal also has to include Smart in the costs column. At that point, it's really quite clear to me that this particular deal should not be done.

NESportsfan12 wrote:

fierce wrote:

NESportsfan12 wrote:As for whether we can be GSW: We've done it in the regular season without one of our two stars. I see no reason to think that, provided we can keep some of our Curry-stoppers (smart and rozier), we'll be okay against them.

The Celts' best 5 will be Kyrie, Tatum, Hayward, Horford, and Smart.

Only 5 players can play at any given time.

Rozier and Brown will be on the bench in crunch time because no way Brad is going to play Kyrie with Rozier.
Brown will also sit because Brad always has Smart in the game when it's winning time.

And of course Ainge will not trade for Kawhi if he's not healthy and not willing to play for Boston.

I guess the point is: A team where the five best players were KI, JB, JT, AH and MS beat the warriors in 1 game this year. The team without Kyrie, where the best players were MS JB JT AH and AB very nearly beat them a second time.  (I am remembering correctly that our second game was played without Kyrie, right? anyway...) It seems pretty clear given that track record that we should think of a team that puts another one of our best players on the bench (with the return of GH) will be that much better positioned to win.

I guess I'm just not convinced that given that track record against GSW, and given a summer for JB and JT to continue to improve, that GSW matches up particularly well against our full roster. In fact, I'd say that as currently constituted, a healthy Boston Celtics Roster has the best chance of anyone beating GSW in a 7 game series.

Clearly KL makes us better, if he's healthy. In that sense, we should listen, if they call. Danny always listens. But I'm actually pretty content to let JB develop rather than trading him away. A team with MS, MM and DT as the next four off the bench seems somewhat better to me than a team with basically scrubs coming off the bench, and a somewhat better starting five.

As for not being able to stop Lebron: I don't think that was the main issue this series. I think the main issue was inexperience down the stretch, and a lack of firepower. I think it's pretty clear that had we had GH or KI, we don't lose game 7 by 8 points, because if you have GH or KI or both, you're not letting Rozier shoot (and miss) 10 threes, and you're not giving an ice cold Jaylen Brown 12 shots from three. Instead, you've got the ball in the hands of capable veterans, and those players can stay within their comfort zones.

+1

Here's another possible scenario.

https://nesn.com/2018/05/nba-rumors-celtics-eyeing-mo-bamba-could-swing-draft-trade-for-texas-star/

So, what would the Celtics need to give up to acquire a top-six pick? According to Deveney, they’d likely need to part with either Jaylen Brown or Terry Rozier, as well as their No. 27 pick in this year’s draft and at least one of their 2019 selections. Boston currently owns the Sacramento Kings’ first-round pick (protected for the No. 1 overall pick) and the Memphis Grizzlies’ first-rounder, which is top-8 protected. Parting ways with the 21-year-old Brown, who more than doubled his scoring output during his second NBA season while blossoming into a legitimate, two-way NBA starter, seems like a steep price to pay for the C’s. But the possibility of trading Rozier is intriguing: If Boston re-signs restricted free agent Marcus Smart, the 24-year-old point guard could be the odd man out in a crowded backcourt with Kyrie Irving returning to the fold.

It's pretty obvious the Celts have a surplus of talent.

That's why I think Ainge will make a move in a few weeks.

I would not be surprised if Rozier plus were traded for Bamba which raises the question. Would Mo Bamba be Mo Better?

worcester wrote:I would not be surprised if Rozier plus were traded for Bamba which raises the question. Would Mo Bamba be Mo Better?

It's a gamble, that's for sure!

That's why I want a sure thing like Kawhi Leonard.

Are you saying that would prevent ys from having the Mo Bamba Blues?

worcester wrote:Are you saying that would prevent ys from having the Mo Bamba Blues?

Ainge wants Mo Bamba?

Marcus Smart wants Mo Money!

With Mo a Celtic they'd be playing La Bamba in the Garden. I would actually like trading Rozier plus for Bamba - or Smart plus for him.

worcester wrote:With Mo a Celtic they'd be playing La Bamba in the Garden. I would actually like trading Rozier plus for Bamba - or Smart plus for him.

Keep Smart.

Rozier plus the 2019 Kings pick for Bamba would be fair.

I really like both Terry and Marcus, but I like a good center on the Celtics and #'s 18 19, and 20 even more.

Assuming Kyrie comes back healthy, he , Smart and Shane Larkin , or another cheap alternative could certainly handle the point guard minutes. Let`s not forget that Irving is only 26 years old. I like Rozier , but not as much as Brown , and I`m not sure Smart is a good fit anywhere but Boston. If Bamba  is the real deal, Rozier and a couple 2019 picks seems reasonable to move up, but how high must they go to get Bamba , and who else would we want if he isn`t available.

Makes sense Jr but I don't want to give up our Sacto pick plus Rozier to get Bamba. Our #27 pick, the Memphis pick, and Terry sure.

I trade Terry and Sac Pick for Bamba in a heartbeat, provided we can get Smart back in a C's uniform.

In my view, that probably best positions us for the future than any other move this off season.

(If you can say: Provide KL is healthy, we should trade for him, I can say, provided Bamba looks good in his workouts, we should trade for him. There's a risk in both directions, as Fultz and Isaiah Thomas have taught us respectively.)

worcester wrote:Makes sense Jr but I don't want to give up our Sacto pick plus Rozier to get Bamba. Our #27 pick, the Memphis pick,  and Terry sure.

It's not clear to me that the Sac pick will fetch something better than Bamba. He's one of the best in a very strong draft class. As for Rozier, his stock is high, but it's a crowded bench. But we've also seen that playing in the Brad/Danny system can inflate one's stock beyond where it ought to be (see Avery Bradley, Evan Turner, Isaiah Thomas, and others).

NESportsfan12 wrote:

worcester wrote:Makes sense Jr but I don't want to give up our Sacto pick plus Rozier to get Bamba. Our #27 pick, the Memphis pick,  and Terry sure.

It's not clear to me that the Sac pick will fetch something better than Bamba. He's one of the best in a very strong draft class. As for Rozier, his stock is high, but it's a crowded bench. But we've also seen that playing in the Brad/Danny system can inflate one's stock beyond where it ought to be (see Avery Bradley, Evan Turner, Isaiah Thomas, and others).

I agree with NESportsfan12.

We need a high quality young big to grow up with Jaylen and Jayson and to eventually replace Al. That is, really, one of the only remaining pieces to be put in place long-term.

ASSUMING the Sacto pick is very high who, in next year's weaker draft, would be as good or better than Bamba this year? It's not all about draft position, it's also about who's available to be drafted.

It would suck losing Rozier, but he is going to be gone in a year or two anyway as the combination of his legitimate desire to start and his rookie contract ending and him getting a well-deserved raise make keeping him untenable. Don't forget, the same year Rozier gets a qualifying offer of $4.3M, Kyrie Irving has a player option on his contract. He'd be making about $22M IF HE OPTS IN. If he doesn't then the price will be considerably higher. Where will the money for that come from if we're giving it to Terry, and you know someone will offer Rozier more than $4.3M. We can match it, sure, but once again, where is the money to pay both? It gets even tougher if we do end up keeping Smart. And Theis will be due for a raise too. Like him?


bob


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OK Bob and NESportsfan - you've convinced me - the Sacto pick, our #27, and Terry for Bamba. Now Git Er Dun Danny. Get Er Dun.

Meeting with a prospect is miles away from anything definitive.

Until a deal is baked everything is speculative.

However Danny has to make decision about Marcus Smart and Baynes in 30 days or so.

I think we can all agree that Rozier is a prime trading asset because the cost to offer him an extension and still resign Brown and Tatum the following year would be difficult.  

Although these are all down the road issues, Danny is likely looking to begin to address them now.

Danny has added a lot of talent yo thus team but ourside if the Horford FA signing he has not added a young big.

The Sacto pick next year probably does not get you that big so moving that pick this year makes a lot sense to me

I do not believe Boston has to move up into the top 5.  I think that a top 6th position will be just fine.

If Danny can do that by moving Terry and the Sacto pick that would be great. If #27 is also needed that would be ok.  I would not however trade either Brown or Tatum along with picks for any prospect in this draft.

Current draft order and possible picks:
No. 1 (Suns): Deandre Ayton (8 )
No. 2 (Kings): Luka Doncic (6)
No. 3 (Hawks): Marvin Bagley III (7)
No. 4 (Grizzlies): Jaren Jackson, Jr. (5)
No. 5 (Mavericks): Mo Bamba (6)
No. 6 (Magic): Trae Young (5)
No. 7 (Bulls): Wendell Carter (5)
No. 8 (Cavaliers): Trae Young (4)
No. 9 (Knicks): Collin Sexton (3)
No. 10 (76ers): Miles Bridges (4)

Do you think there's any chance we could trade Rozier to Sacto, giving them our #27 and their own pick next year? Thet have Fox and Bogdanovich (Sp?) but Terry is better than both, and they'd have a great pick next year plus depth at the 1 and 2. Are that that stupid?

worcester wrote:Current draft order and possible picks:
No. 1 (Suns): Deandre Ayton (8 )
No. 2 (Kings): Luka Doncic (6)
No. 3 (Hawks): Marvin Bagley III (7)
No. 4 (Grizzlies): Jaren Jackson, Jr. (5)
No. 5 (Mavericks): Mo Bamba (6)
No. 6 (Magic): Trae Young (5)
No. 7 (Bulls): Wendell Carter (5)
No. 8 (Cavaliers): Trae Young (4)
No. 9 (Knicks): Collin Sexton (3)
No. 10 (76ers): Miles Bridges (4)

Do you think there's any chance we could trade Rozier to Sacto, giving them our #27 and their own pick next year? Thet have Fox and Bogdanovich (Sp?) but Terry is better than both, and they'd have a great pick next year plus depth at the 1 and 2. Are that that stupid?

worcester,

Anything is possible with trades that create holes in your roster and/or depth but let's look at current needs:

1.  Phoenix - I doubt they are going to trade their #1 pick for anything much lower than 5 or 6 in this draft OR for an all-star.  Why would they?  Could Danny pull off a 3-way?  Hard to do.  Not impossible, but hard.

2.  Sacto - They think Fox is their future.  Is Rozier better?  Maybe now but is he HUGELY better?  If not then there isn't much incentive there for them because Fox is at the beginning of his rookie contract while Rozier is at the end of it and they are a small market team.  Fox is 6'3", Rozier is 6'2".  Starting them together would mean someone would be getting posted up regularly.

3.  Atlanta - They are trying to clean house, they even canned their highly qualified coach.  Last trade deadline they were shopping Dennis Schroder.  He's under contract for $15.5M for the next 3 years.  Not a bad contract for a very good starting player who is young (24) and healthy.  If they can find a buyer, they would need a new starting point guard.  Enter Terry Rozier.  Throw in a likely high draft pick like Sacto's next year and a team committed to a multi-year rebuild might look at how Boston and Philly have built their teams with a couple of high picks and who knows?

4.  Memphis - Another team that is hovering on the brink of a complete house cleaning.  If Mark Gasol is traded (somehow) that's when you know they are throwing in the towel, not just on this roster but on Memphis itself and will move to Seattle or some other city.  Even if they keep Gasol, then they have Mike Conley, who will be 31 in October, as their starting point guard and he's really really good but he only played 12 games last year.  He had season ending surgery in January to smooth out a small bone intrusion in his left heel.  That sounds to me similar to a bone spur.  Bone spurs seem to be recurring, I think back to Ray Allen's.  Rozier, at 24 and with zero injury history, might be enticing to them.  They might want their pick back as well as the Sacto pick, certainly they'd want theirs if they commit to a blowup, which would mean their pick will increase in value.  Personally, I think that once we get our young big we have enough youth on the team, we don't need more picks.  Give'em up for quality.

5.  Dallas - here's a toughie.  With Nerlens Noel likely gone (he only played in 30 games and averaged only 15.7mpg) they could sure use a shot blocking center and Bamba played for Texas (Austin, not Dallas, but still Texas).  They have Dennis Smith Jr, but can he do what Rozier does?  JJ Barea is depth.  So, they likely could use Rozier, but they also desperately need a new center, and guards are easier to come by.

6.  Orlando - Here's a good fit for Rozier.  They gave up Payton and their starting point guard is DJ Augustin.  Rozier would be an obvious starter on this team which was 24th in offense and 21st in defense.  They have Vucevic, who is only 27, for a center as well as Jonathan Isaac.  This is a place looking for a deal like this, but will Bamba fall past Dallas?

Speaking of Dallas, we could also sign Nerlens Noel as an unrestricted free agent.  We couldn't pay him much but his stock is quite low right now.  Aside from being a New England product and be able to play before his friends and family regularly I would have to guess that Brad is now famous for his successful reclamation projects.  He might be willing to accept a 1 or 2 year contract in exchange for the opportunity to rehabilitate his reputation under Obi Brad Kenobi.  It worked out well for IT, Turner, Crowder and just about everybody else Brad has coached, and Noel is only 24 years old.  He can afford a year or two of resume building over banking the immediate bucks.  This might not solve our problem long-term, since I am not firmly convinced that Noel is Horford's replacement but he will want Horford's money because his ego is bigger than his talent, but he'd tide us over for a few years.  That will give Danny time to pull some more rabbits out of his hat.


bob


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Guys, did you see Game 1 of this year's Finals?

Lebron scored 51 points and the Cavs still lost!

GSW is on a different level.

That's why I want Ainge to go after Kawhi.

GSW has 4 elite players.

If Celts stand pat, Celts will lose to GSW next year in the Finals.

Definitely the Celts will beat the Cavs next year when Kyrie and Hayward return.
But I doubt the Celts will beat GSW.
They're just too talented.

Back in 2007, Ainge set the bar when he assembled a Big 3.
That's why Lebron couldn't beat the Celts when he was the only elite player on the Cavs.
Lebron had to form his own Big 3 to dethrone the Celts.

Ainge must match GSW's talent level for the Celts to beat GSW.
There's no way around that.

I don't think the Bamba rumor is legit.

Here:

Mark Murphy: League source on Celtics’ reported interest in moving up to draft Mo Bamba: “Don’t waste your time on that one.” 22 hours ago – via Twitter Murf56

Unless the Celtics are willing to part with one of their wings, the most viable trade partner is Orlando.

Danny is doing his job but he is not going to screw up the future to draft a prospect.  And if he is not happy with proposals he will use 27 to draft a prospect and save The Sacto, Clippers, Memphis, etc. Picks to trade another day.

The Celtics are rebuilt.  Future moves will simply be made to add quality layers of depth up and down the roster.