Re: Trade Rumors

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:54 pm

dboss wrote:kdp59

I think the Celtics want to win this year. They have had an up and down season. I could see them adding a low cost veteran big for the playoff run. My biggest concern for this team going forward is at the center position. The return of Aron Baynes has helped to stabilize the position but Al is now in a situation where his knee may flare up at anytime. The longer we go into the season the more likely that this problem will present itself.

With respect to Morris, I am taking the contrarian view as I often do. He'll turn 30 years old at the beginning of next season. He is playing for his next contract which is likely to be his last substantial contract. He is having a career year and has been one of our most consistent players all year long.

Therefore the Celtics should not resign him as a FA. Think about this. He is having a career year in year 9. His career year is far from great at 14.8 PPG and 6.1 rebounds. He is likely to return to the mean. The Celtics have other more important payroll issues to address. The Celtics can solve some of their rotation minutes issue easier without him in the mix. The Celtics need a quality PF that can also defend the post.

+1

by **kdp59** Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:06 pm

my point with Morris is we COULD sign him for whatever with his Bird rights. We will only have a mid level exception to replace him next year or a draft pick.

Either one will likely be a downgrade from where Morris has played since he came here.

it might be difficult to get a similar or better player with the cap constraints we will have.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima03.html

his per 36 min numbers are pretty consistent since we traded for him , though his shooting % numbers are WAY UP this year so far.

perhaps Morris is just another player having the Stevens affect, I wouldn't argue that is not the case myself.

I think re signing Morris will be a harder call than many think for Danny this off-season.

by **dboss** Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:02 pm

A healthy Hayward and developing Tatum will more tham makeup for what Morris brings. What would we really miss if he was gone?

I actually would be more inclined to resign Theis. Don't get me wrong Morris has outplayed his cheap contract. But The Celtics should not feel compelled to give him more money. He is gonna want $12-15 mill and some team in need of a shooter will pay him. Lot of guys can thank Stevens and the Celtics for increasing their market value.

by **kdp59** Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:17 pm

dboss wrote:A healthy Hayward and developing Tatum will more tham makeup for what Morris brings. What would we really miss if he was gone?

I actually would be more inclined to resign Theis. Don't get me wrong Morris has outplayed his cheap contract. But The Celtics should not feel compelled to give him more money. He is gonna want $12-15 mill and some team in need of a shooter will pay him. Lot of guys can thank Stevens and the Celtics for increasing their market value.

you may be right that Hayward and Tatum can fill Morris' minutes. I'm not sure about the defense play he provides on bigger forwards though. perhaps if both can beef up some in the off-season I suppose.

Horford won't likely find the fountain of youth next season and will continue his decline, Baynes is a solid BU , so that leaves Rob Williams the Theis to fill the minutes up front. Perhaps they can and will....I guess that will be the call that Danny makes.

I know right now, I would keep Morris over Rozier, if it gets to that...but perhaps both will be gone.

by **dboss** Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:33 pm

Kdp59. Unfortunately Boston probably cannot afford to keep either one of the. Nor should they try.

I am putting my money on DA finding a replacement in the draft. Younger with upside and less costly. The Celtics will have to get Hayward up to 30 mpg next season and Tatum is already there. Neither of them are ideal PF but they rebound as good as Morris. They can play a few minutes here and there at the 4. When Boston did not trade Smart last year I surmised that Terry would be gone this year. I never looked at Morris as a keeper beyond 2 years.

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:03 pm

I don’t see us giving Morris Smart like money when his skills are redundant with better players, we need more size at the 4 long term IMHO.

by **kdp59** Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:45 pm

I would note this is not a great draft for PF types who can contribute immediately.....unless we get a top ten pick maybe then.

by **dboss** Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:50 am

There is talent sprinkled throughout the draft but is really hard to look at a prospect and project him into a starter or rotation player. We could trade up to get a partcular pick in the top 10.

Danny has a lot of options.

by **dbrown4** Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:49 am

Just in on ESPN re: Carmelo going to Bulls.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25818953/houston-rockets-agree-deal-carmelo-anthony-chicago-bulls

db

by **bobheckler** Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:55 am

dbrown4 wrote:Just in on ESPN re: Carmelo going to Bulls.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25818953/houston-rockets-agree-deal-carmelo-anthony-chicago-bulls

db

If the "going nowhere" Bulls is the best offer Carmelo can get then he is as done as done can be.

And I, for one, say "good riddance".

bob

.

by **bobheckler** Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:41 pm

New York does not want to take back salary in a trade of Kanter, sources say. If the Knicks can’t find a trade that suits them, the club and Kanter could agree on a buyout, which would allow Kanter to sign with the team of his choice. 18 hours ago – via ESPN

bob

.

by **wideclyde** Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:43 pm

I have no problem with Anthony going to the Bulls as long as he never puts on a Cs uniform for any reason.

by **kdp59** Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:02 pm

Bulls are expected to cut him, the Rockets sent the cash to eat the rest of his salary and the Bulls has cap space to use up.

Houston gets tax relief in this deal and Melo gets to be a free agent.

at least that's what i read

by **dboss** Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:03 pm

I read that Chi-town has no intentions of playing him and he may be waived or bought out (again)

Does not seem like anybody is interested in adding him for a playoff run.

by **bobheckler** Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:08 pm

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/why-lakers-dream-of-anthony-davis-trade-could-be-quickly-disappearing/5wty1lyyho3h1olvrp9x3o2kk

Trade Rumors - Page 2 Brandon-ingram-lonzo-ball-getty-011719-ftrjpg_cueaqx7lgwh31w0vyy1rfoygr

Trade Rumors - Page 2 Brandon-ingram-lonzo-ball-getty-011719-ftrjpg_cueaqx7lgwh31w0vyy1rfoygr

Why Lakers' dream of Anthony Davis trade could be quickly disappearing

January 22, 2019 7:29am ESTJanuary 22, 2019 7:25am ESTNBA, Los Angeles LakersThe Lakers would love to put LeBron James and Anthony Davis together. But LA's pieces are decreasing in value, and if the Pelicans do eventually trade Davis, they could look for (and find) a better offer.

Joe Morgan Contributor @joemorgantakes
Updated at 7:29 a.m. ET

There are no sure things when it comes to Anthony Davis' future. The Pelicans star hasn't revealed much about his plans beyond this season, instead focusing on giving New Orleans a chance to return to the playoffs.

However, with big names around the league talking about adding Davis to their teams and the Pelicans now four games out of the final postseason slot in the West, it's impossible to avoid speculation about a potential Davis trade. If he doesn't sign a max extension this summer, the Pelicans would have to consider trading Davis rather than losing him for nothing — and that's exactly how the Lakers are hoping this will play out.

The Lakers could be the front runners for Davis, who signed on with Klutch Sports prior to the 2018-19 season. (Klutch just so happens to be LeBron James' agency.) James has publicly stated his desire to play alongside Davis — his comments forced the league to send out a reminder about tampering — and the two superstars shared a dinner together in Los Angeles after the Lakers beat the Pelicans last month.

A James-Davis pairing makes sense for both sides. James needs a teammate like Davis in order to become a legitimate threat for a fourth title, and Davis needs a player like James to help him enhance his legacy.

"I'd take legacy over money," Davis recently told Chris Haynes of Yahoo Sports. "I want to have a legacy. All my people that look up to me, the younger kids, I want them to know about AD’s legacy. Championships, the things I do in the community, being a good teammate, playing hard. All that stuff matters the most to me.

"Don’t get me wrong, money is amazing. But I think in that sense, money or legacy, I think my legacy will win that battle every time."

The Pels obviously don’t want to consider life without Davis, a once-in-a-generation talent squarely in his prime at only 25 years old. New Orleans head coach Alvin Gentry put it in pretty basic terms.

"We're not trading him under any circumstance," Gentry said before the Pelicans-Lakers game. "You can move on from that one."

No front office plans to trade away a franchise cornerstone, but if Davis makes it clear he isn't staying, the Pelicans won't have much of a choice. The Lakers will pounce if he becomes available, but there is a bigger question for Los Angeles: Why would the Pelicans look to the Lakers for the best possible return? What pieces would genuinely intrigue them?

The addition of James only increased expectations for Brandon Ingram, who took a significant leap in his second season prior to LeBron's arrival. And yet, Ingram has failed to live up to the hype in his third year.

He’s struggled playing off the ball, and he’s shooting just 29.7 percent from beyond the arc. Ingram doesn't consistently create separation off the dribble, and he still isn’t strong enough to establish and maintain position. He also has been unable to prove that he can be a decent distributor. Through 36 games, Ingram is averaging just 2.9 assists per game to go along with 2.6 turnovers. Those aren’t exactly numbers that scream "centerpiece" in a trade for Davis.

The remainder of the Lakers' young core that would hypothetically be packaged in a trade for Davis hasn't exactly inspired confidence, either.

There was hope that Lonzo Ball would rediscover his old 3-point shot (41.2 percent at UCLA), but the offseason work on his form and playing alongside James hasn’t scared defenders. Ball is shooting just 32.9 percent from deep and an atrocious 41.7 percent on free throws. And while there are many parts of his game to like — vision, playmaking, defense — the Lakers never know which version of Ball they'll see night to night.

Since James hit the bench with a groin injury that has forced him to sit the past 13 games, Kyle Kuzma has emerged as the No. 1 scoring option. He’s shooting 47.0 percent from the floor while averaging 19.3 points per game on the year. He has the raw skills to become a top offensive threat, but he is far from a defensive stopper, and his lack of playmaking has been noticeable in James’ absence.

Without LeBron leading the way, the Lakers have gone 5-8, including an embarrassing loss to the Cavs. Since James left the floor on Christmas Day, Los Angeles has the fourth-worst offense in the league.

Lakers offense (since Dec. 25)....................Number.............Rank (out of 30)
Offensive rating--------------------------------104.0-------------27
Effective field goal %--------------------------50.3--------------25
True shooting %-------------------------------53.3---------------28
Assist/turnover--------------------------------1.51---------------26

It's too early to make snap judgments about Ingram, Ball and Kuzma. Players develop at different rates, and adjusting to life with (and now without) James is a unique challenge. But regardless of what the Lakers can offer, it pales in comparison to what their longtime rivals can put on the table.

Enter the Celtics.

It's no secret that the Celtics have also been eyeing AD. Boston president Danny Ainge has stockpiled loads of talent to go along with a plethora of high draft picks for this very purpose. The Lakers won’t be able to match what the Celtics can offer, especially if Jayson Tatum is involved. (Even Tatum couldn't deny Davis' value: "I'd trade me too for Anthony Davis.")

Tatum looks like he has the potential to be a top-10 player in the league in the near future. Jaylen Brown and Terry Rozier are coming off breakout performances in last year’s run to the Eastern Conference finals, though both have failed to thrive in new roles this season. The Celtics' offer could get more enticing if the Kings slide down in the standings (Boston owns their 2019 first-round pick).

The only advantage for the Lakers? The Celtics are unable to trade for Davis until July due to the "Rose Rule," which prohibits teams from acquiring multiple players via trade that signed rookie extensions for 30 percent of their team’s salary cap — Kyrie Irving is one of these players. This gives the Lakers a window to orchestrate a trade for Davis before the Celtics can enter the fray.

The problem? The odds of New Orleans trading Davis before the Feb. 7 deadline are essentially zero. It's back to one offer against the other.

Lakers president Magic Johnson and general manager Rob Pelinka promised a repeat of their big 2018 offseason. Adding a player of Davis’ caliber would fulfill that promise and immediately vault the Lakers to the top tier of the West.

That's all wishful thinking, though, and doesn't reflect the reality of their current situation. The Lakers aren't just losing without LeBron — they're pushing any Davis dream scenarios right out of Staples Center.

bob

.

by **jrleftfoot** Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:36 pm

kdp59 wrote:my point with Morris is we COULD sign him for whatever with his Bird rights. We will only have a mid level exception to replace him next year or a draft pick.

Either one will likely be a downgrade from where Morris has played since he came here.

it might be difficult to get a similar or better player with the cap constraints we will have.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/morrima03.html

his per 36 min numbers are pretty consistent since we traded for him , though his shooting % numbers are WAY UP this year so far.

perhaps Morris is just another player having the Stevens affect, I wouldn't argue that is not the case myself.

I think re signing Morris will be a harder call than many think for Danny this off-season.
I agree. Never underestimate toughness, physical and mental. Morris is as tough as they come . Some on this board have denigrated since he came over. Pay the damn tax. If a trade involves AD, sure, but letting him go for tax space would be, in my opinion, monumentally stupid.

by **wideclyde** Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:02 pm

Morris has made a name for himself in his year and a half in Boston. The fans like him and so, apparently, does his coach and teammates. He just seems to fit even if he is not the very best player in the league.

As already mentioned by others, he is going to be a tough call for Ainge this summer.

by **dboss** Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:32 pm

wideclyde wrote:Morris has made a name for himself in his year and a half in Boston. The fans like him and so, apparently, does his coach and teammates. He just seems to fit even if he is not the very best player in the league.

As already mentioned by others, he is going to be a tough call for Ainge this summer.

This is one of the most interesting threads on the board because even after the trade deadline comes and goes, a summer of Draft picks Free agency AND trades will be a big topic of conversation

Morris is an unrestricted free agent which limits Danny's right to match. We should keep that in mind as it relates to options the Celtics have.

Under another thread kdp59 made some great points about keeping Morris. I am not totally sold on resigning him. Although he is a very solid contributor I think we really need an upgrade at the 4 or 5 spot going forward. The other problem is that GH is being paid starter money and as he regains his form i fully expect him to be in the starting lineup. There is a ton of money invested there for him to be a bench/rotation players. So that tells me that Morris will be heading back to the bench at some point. I do not see Danny shelling out a lot of dough to keep him as a bench player.

I do not pretend to be certain about any of this. If the Celtics went into this season with championship expectations and they fall short then Danny will be looking to upgrade the team again. The Celtics are already a tax payer which was expected but tax payer teams that do not win become wasted dollars. There are limits on how much they are willing to spend.

I really do not like signing 30 year old players coming off career years. I suppose if they gave him a two year deal including a team option it would not compromise future changes that will be needed. But if you are turning 30 in September as Morris is and you are having a career year and if you have been underpaid relative to guys in similar positions then you are in search of a contract that will secure your financial future. So Morris probably would not take essentially a one year deal if someone is willing to offer a 3-4 year deal at market prices.

The Celtics are very likely to let him walk. We have the assets to replace him in the draft this summer or we have the assets to get AD which would make Morris even more expendable.

The problem with Boston as I see it is two-fold. There are not enough minutes to go around given the number of players that should be getting 30+ minutes and secondly based on the historical record of Al Horford, winning the championship may be beyond the teams ability. He had a really good game last night grabbing 12 boards but he is not close to being that type of rebounder. GSW recently activated Cousins. Not only are they a great shooting team but now they have a beast in the middle. We play them on Saturday which should be a good look see on how we stack up.

In sum, I do not see Morris as a long term PF solution. He plays the wing and we are already loaded there. We need more talent across the front at 4 and 5. I am adding a new disclaimer to my comments. I'm not sure about any of this. [ INS ]

by **NYCelt** Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:54 pm

dboss wrote:
wideclyde wrote:Morris has made a name for himself in his year and a half in Boston. The fans like him and so, apparently, does his coach and teammates. He just seems to fit even if he is not the very best player in the league.

As already mentioned by others, he is going to be a tough call for Ainge this summer.

This is one of the most interesting threads on the board because even after the trade deadline comes and goes, a summer of Draft picks Free agency AND trades will be a big topic of conversation

Morris is an unrestricted free agent which limits Danny's right to match. We should keep that in mind as it relates to options the Celtics have.

Under another thread kdp59 made some great points about keeping Morris. I am not totally sold on resigning him. Although he is a very solid contributor I think we really need an upgrade at the 4 or 5 spot going forward. The other problem is that GH is being paid starter money and as he regains his form i fully expect him to be in the starting lineup. There is a ton of money invested there for him to be a bench/rotation players. So that tells me that Morris will be heading back to the bench at some point. I do not see Danny shelling out a lot of dough to keep him as a bench player.

I do not pretend to be certain about any of this. If the Celtics went into this season with championship expectations and they fall short then Danny will be looking to upgrade the team again. The Celtics are already a tax payer which was expected but tax payer teams that do not win become wasted dollars. There are limits on how much they are willing to spend.

I really do not like signing 30 year old players coming off career years. I suppose if they gave him a two year deal including a team option it would not compromise future changes that will be needed. But if you are turning 30 in September as Morris is and you are having a career year and if you have been underpaid relative to guys in similar positions then you are in search of a contract that will secure your financial future. So Morris probably would not take essentially a one year deal if someone is willing to offer a 3-4 year deal at market prices.

The Celtics are very likely to let him walk. We have the assets to replace him in the draft this summer or we have the assets to get AD which would make Morris even more expendable.

The problem with Boston as I see it is two-fold. There are not enough minutes to go around given the number of players that should be getting 30+ minutes and secondly based on the historical record of Al Horford, winning the championship may be beyond the teams ability. He had a really good game last night grabbing 12 boards but he is not close to being that type of rebounder. GSW recently activated Cousins. Not only are they a great shooting team but now they have a beast in the middle. We play them on Saturday which should be a good look see on how we stack up.

In sum, I do not see Morris as a long term PF solution. He plays the wing and we are already loaded there. We need more talent across the front at 4 and 5. I am adding a new disclaimer to my comments. I'm not sure about any of this. [ INS ]

dboss,

I like the INS disclaimer!

There's not a post in any similar thread that's ever been written here that anyone can truly be sure of. Your INS is in very good company.

I agree that this is an interesting thread because there are no boundaries. It appears more has yet to be done with the roster to make the team a top contender, so speculation about trades, picks, or signings is like the Wild West of the forum. Try your hand, you might be right.

For what it's worth, I do think the ongoing speculation that the front line has to change will be proven valid. I don't think this team can win a title with Horford and Morris starting in the front court either. But before we throw the baby out with the bathwater (I've been waiting to use that one), Boston may have the most spectacular young backcourt/wing combo around with Irving, Smart, and Tatum. There are components on the bench that are great pieces for depth. Theis, Baynes, and understudy Williams could provide excellent backing to a front line. Brown looks like he's getting his groove back, and he certainly could be a huge difference maker coming in behind Tatum and Smart. Rozier and Hayward are wild cards of different breeds, I think. Despite the uneven season so far, I have no doubt Rozier is a starting point guard in the NBA. He might be tough to retain, but I think he could be a difference maker off the bench if Boston can assemble the final pieces to build a contender. Hayward presents a dilemma in my view. He's still working his way back, and it just seems too early to judge what kind of player he is going to be. There doesn't seem to be a spot for him in the starting lineup, and he's one expensive reserve. Maybe he's the super sixth man a la Kevin McHale or John Havlicek. Hopefully he can take his game further than where it is now and achieve what those two did.

I still expect the team is going to get closer to being able to contend with the likes of Toronto and Milwaukee as the season heads for the finish line. I think catching Philadelphia and Indiana is a very realistic goal. For the hundredth time I'll state that although I don't see anything other than a deal for some bench strength now, I think this will be an even better thread and topic once the season is over. I believe Ainge & Company will do what it takes to use everything they've got to build the front court, improve the bench, and make a move to get ahead of teams that currently rule the east. I see bodies moving along with some higher picks. I firmly expect Boston will have to be a big 'ol tax payer to get any of this done.

Of course, I should borrow something from you, and add... INS.

Regards

by **jrleftfoot** Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:58 pm

dbrown4 wrote:Just in on ESPN re: Carmelo going to Bulls.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25818953/houston-rockets-agree-deal-carmelo-anthony-chicago-bulls

db

not for long

by **worcester** Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:08 am

Given how monumentally Knicks management is, I would not be surprised to see them resign Melo. I can think of nothing more stupid. That's why the Knicks may do it. I still hate them for beating us out of a title when Hondo was hurt in the early 90's.

by **sinus007** Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:52 am

Worcester,
"Hondo", "early 90's" ??? Something doesn't add up.

AK

by **worcester** Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:54 am

Early 70's -1973 to be exact. A bit dyslexic me...

by **dboss** Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:15 am

worcester wrote:Early 70's -1973 to be exact. A bit dyslexic me...

Worcester. No matter what we ain't the Knicks. Can you imagine if we were Knicks fans?

Can you imagine living in a we still suck mode for most of your life?

by **worcester** Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:56 am

Have they raised a "we still suck" banner in Madison Square Garden?

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