Re: Draft Pick #1 - 6

by **Ram** Wed May 18, 2016 12:13 pm

I am a firm believer in value of the pick trumping "player my GM desires" which is why Bill Belichick frustrates me so much when he drafts guys whose character, work ethic and intelligence will fit in New England but who all scouts graded out as a 5th-7th rd pick and Bill took him in rd 2 or 3.

I think I would rather see Danny draft Poeltl, Maker, Davis, Brown and Skal over any of the guards mocked in the 3-6 range based on upside and fitting a need. Yet he better be trading down to a guard hungry team like the Kings at 8 or the Bucks at 10 and adding another asset if he goes this route.

"Reaching" for a player in the draft value wise is always a bad thing. Obviously Danny is a great asset collector so this probably won't be an issue for him.

by **worcester** Wed May 18, 2016 12:21 pm

Bob, You are funny and smart, but you are still not allowed to sleep on my couch.

by **bobheckler** Wed May 18, 2016 12:26 pm

Time to really start looking at this kid. Nobody knows what Danny will do, maybe not even Danny yet but, after Ingram and Simmons, Bender is rated 3rd by most mock drafters.

Bender is 18 and won't turn 19 until November. He is the youngest player in this year's draft. Unfortunately, because the Euro season is still underway, Bender and the rest of the Euro prospects were not able to go to Chicago for the Combine, so we do not have up-to-date measurements on them. He WAS listed at 7'1", 216# with a 7'2" wingspan but that was last year. He could have easily grown another inch or more since then.

This video breakdown by draftexpress is pre-season, so it's at least 6 months old. Bender was 17, or maybe barely 18, when it was done. So, take what you see with a grain of salt. He's had a year of play with one of the perennially top International clubs since then (Maccabi - Tel Aviv is the Boston Celtics of the Euro league. Nobody has won more championships than them, by far).

bob
MY NOTE: A 7'1"+ SF! Jeez. He needs weight and strength, obviously, but put a kid like that, who can shoot 3s like he can already, in Brad's pace-and-space system? Whoa. Who is going to cover a cutting 7'1" SF? Who is going to go out to 3 and cover him? If you're a healthy 6'10" you still have to go all the way out to the arc to challenge a 7'1" player's shot. If you are even a foot or two off him those 3+" will cost you.

Is he another Kelly? IF SO, do we take Bender and trade Kelly or do we pick someone else and keep Kelly? Bottom line, we need Kelly or someone like him, so it comes down to that. Draft Bender and trade Kelly, or keep Kelly and draft someone else.

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by **bobheckler** Wed May 18, 2016 12:39 pm

Chris Mannix likes Bender:

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/dragan-bender-looks-like-real-deal-if-boston-celtics-pick-him

bob

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by **beat** Wed May 18, 2016 12:46 pm

So how does one even begin to cover a 7+ footer that can shoot threes?

Guard the armpit?

beat

by **worcester** Wed May 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Step on his toes.

by **NYCelt** Wed May 18, 2016 1:03 pm

bobheckler wrote:Time to really start looking at this kid... Is he another Kelly? IF SO, do we take Bender and trade Kelly or do we pick someone else and keep Kelly? Bottom line, we need Kelly or someone like him, so it comes down to that. Draft Bender and trade Kelly, or keep Kelly and draft someone else.[/b]

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Bob,

Interesting question.

I think following the shoulder surgery we may be keeping Kelly, or stuck with him, depending on your point of view, for a while.

Regards

by **bobheckler** Wed May 18, 2016 1:07 pm

Knees. Knees are especially vulnerable. Just ask Dick Butkus.

bob

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by **gyso** Wed May 18, 2016 2:11 pm

NYCelt wrote:
bobheckler wrote:Time to really start looking at this kid... Is he another Kelly? IF SO, do we take Bender and trade Kelly or do we pick someone else and keep Kelly? Bottom line, we need Kelly or someone like him, so it comes down to that. Draft Bender and trade Kelly, or keep Kelly and draft someone else.[/b]

.

Bob,

Interesting question.

I think following the shoulder surgery we may be keeping Kelly, or stuck with him, depending on your point of view, for a while.

Regards

NY,

I am in the "keeping" user group. I liked what I saw, at least pre-injury.

gyso

by **bobheckler** Wed May 18, 2016 3:33 pm

All the Top 3 picks since 2000. 5 obvious busts (Miles, Gordon, Morrison, Dunleavy, Porter. Gordon, Porter and Dunleavy are nice, but should not have been lottery picks, much less #3) out of 16, another 1 (Mayo) that is good and the rest are very good players or are likely to be very good players. That's 6 disappointing #3 picks out of 16, 3/8, and a top 3 is supposed to be getting the pick of the litter. The only disappointment should be that you got a very good player and not a great future-HOF one. You can say what you want about this year's crop, I don't believe that 16 drafts worth of talent are all as weak as this year's.

Draft Pick #1 - 6 - Page 6 Cis-T9NXAAAXZlf

Draft Pick #1 - 6 - Page 6 Cis-T9NXAAAXZlf

bob

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by **bobheckler** Wed May 18, 2016 4:03 pm

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/05/2016_nba_draft_prospects_dragan_bender_boston_celtics.html

2016 NBA Draft prospects: Dragan Bender, Boston Celtics might be great combination

Draft Pick #1 - 6 - Page 6 20372469-mmmain

Draft Pick #1 - 6 - Page 6 20372469-mmmain

Croatian big man Dragan Bender could be a versatile draft option for the Boston Celtics. (Nicolas Armer / AP Images)

Tom Westerholm | twesterh@masslive.com By Tom Westerholm | twesterh@masslive.com

on May 18, 2016 at 6:00 AM, updated May 18, 2016 at 6:05 AM

The Boston Celtics avoided dropping out of the lottery on Tuesday, drawing the No. 3 overall pick in the 2016 NBA Draft. While keeping that pick (by no means whatsoever a guarantee) would likely preclude them from Brandon Ingram or Ben Simmons, it still presents an intriguing batch of options.

Perhaps no option is more intriguing than Croatian big man Dragan Bender, whose skill set is surpassed perhaps only by his phenomenal name. Bender shot up draft boards this year, and he currently resides in the No. 3 slot on the venerable Draft Express mock. If the Celtics snatched him up, they would add a big man with a versatile blend of talents that might make a coach like Brad Stevens salivate.

As always, check out Draft Express for more info on Bender.

Strengths

Bender's potential is incredibly high, and it starts with his body. He's enormous — 7-foot-1 with a 7-foot-2 wing span — but he's also very fluid, which is increasingly important in today's NBA.

That fluidity allows Bender to do a lot of intriguing things. He can run the floor very well, filling lanes and getting out in transition, and his height combined with his speed make him a high-potential player in the pick-and-roll. Finding the right spots is crucial for a young player off the ball, and Bender seems to do that quite well.

While he will need to fill out considerably (he was last weighed at 216 pounds), he has the potential to be a solid rebounder — he showed a high offensive-rebounding IQ and has flashed the ability to back-tap a la Tyson Chandler, creating extra possessions for his team.

Bender's 3-point shot is also improving, which is a big reason he could tempt teams high in the lottery. While he struggled early in his (still very young) career, his stroke doesn't look broken, and if he can prove that his range stretches to the NBA 3-point line, he'll be especially dangerous as a stretch-4 and, after adding strength, potentially a stretch-5. Bender's fluidity makes him a PnR threat, but his shot could make him dangerous as a pick-and-pop option as well. Currently, he needs plenty of time to line up a triple, but if that changes, his jumper could be a weapon.

But where Bender truly excels is as a passer. Watch him grab a rebound and send a side-arm full-court pass to a teammate for an easy breakaway bucket.

Outlet passes like this aren't Bender's only strength. He has also shown flashes as drive-and-kick passer, and he has excellent vision in the post with his back to the basket — while this shooter misses, the skip pass finds him perfectly.

Bender is also a very solid perimeter defender already, with quick hands and feet. He can close out nicely, using his length to contest 3-point shooters, and when he is switched onto a guard, he can swallow them up with his length. That will make him an excellent NBA defender, where modern bigs are expected to contain wings and point guards by switching and icing them to the sides. Bender should be able to adjust to those demands quickly.

Finally, Bender's potential takes on an especially promising light given his age — at 18-years-old until November, he's one of the youngest players in the draft class, but he's also played multiple high-level professional basketball seasons. Overseas basketball isn't quite NBA basketball, but it's frequently a higher quality than the NCAA.

Weaknesses

While Bender's list of strengths begins with his frame, his list of weaknesses does as well. As fluid and quick-footed as Bender is guarding perimeter players, NBA power forwards are generally required to be able to defend the interior at at the very least a cursory level. Bender will struggle until he puts on some muscle against the strength and physicality of professional big men. He's still very thin, and big men overseas were able to dislodge him and move him around the paint. That had a negative effect on him both offensively and defensively: On offense, he struggled to establish position, while on defense, his rim protection suffered from his inability to hold his ground.

Adding strength will also be crucial when Bender drives. While he can slash and find teammates as a passer, finishing around the rim through contact is difficult for him, since he isn't strong enough to simply plow through people. He also isn't lightning quick — his agility and height help him, but his speed isn't elite yet.

Finally, while Bender's shooting has gotten notably better, he still needs a lot of time to get it off — one of the biggest reasons why Bender is a different player from the lazy comparisons to Kristaps Porgzingis. Bender can — and probably will — continue to improve as a shooter, but it's not a guarantee.

Fit With The Celtics

The Celtics are likely to have a pretty big need at the power forward position after free agency this season, which makes someone like Bender intriguing, as does his previous experience in the pros. Add in his defensive versatility and switchability (not a word, but given modern NBA trends, let's just pretend it is) and well as his ability to move the basketball, and you've got the the type of player that could fit well into Stevens' system.

Bender, of course, does not really solve Boston's shooting woes, at least not right away, but few rookies would. If the Celtics keep the pick and use it on Bender, they will likely look to acquire shooting elsewhere — either in the free agent or trade market, or by developing players that are already on the roster (R.J. Hunter, for example), or some combination of the two.

Regardless, Bender would be interesting on both ends in lineups with Crowder, Bradley and Smart, and when the Celtics play Isaiah Thomas off the ball, Bender's ability to facilitate the play could come in very handy. He's still raw, but the Celtics are good, and they could help him develop in a system that is already set up to win games.

Level Of Intrigue

One has to imagine it's high. Bender appears to be No. 3 on many draft boards, and after obtaining the No. 3 overall pick last night, the Celtics will likely have to sit idly by as Ingram and Simmons go elsewhere. That would appear to leave Bender, who most teams would consider a nice consolation prize, especially given the way Porzingis has helped shake the recent (and unfair) stigma of Darko Milicic and the unproven European big man.

Ainge claimed he really likes this draft and that Boston is excited about its options at No. 3. He could certainly be angling to up the trade value of a high-quality asset, but it's also possible he sees the potential promise in Bender — a young big man with a collection of talents that offers plenty of promise.

Either way, having the third pick gives Ainge a lot of options. Bender is one, and if he's the direction Boston goes, Celtics fans will have plenty of reasons to be excited.

bob

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by **NYCelt** Wed May 18, 2016 5:47 pm

bobheckler wrote:All the Top 3 picks since 2000. 5 obvious busts (Miles, Gordon, Morrison, Dunleavy, Porter. Gordon, Porter and Dunleavy are nice, but should not have been lottery picks, much less #3) out of 16, another 1 (Mayo) that is good and the rest are very good players or are likely to be very good players. That's 6 disappointing #3 picks out of 16, 3/8, and a top 3 is supposed to be getting the pick of the litter. The only disappointment should be that you got a very good player and not a great future-HOF one. You can say what you want about this year's crop, I don't believe that 16 drafts worth of talent are all as weak as this year's.

bob

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Bob,

I mentioned some of these in the "Draft Strategy; What to do with the 3rd pick" thread. If you want to go a little further back you can also find guys named McHale, Billups, and someone by the name of Jordan who were all taken with the 3rd pick.

Pick number 3 can be very good, and I think this year there may be strong options available with that pick that fill needs we have. There could be some new needs too, if Danny starts dealing, and the deals don't have to include this pick.

Regards

by **bobheckler** Wed May 18, 2016 5:50 pm

NYCelt wrote:
bobheckler wrote:All the Top 3 picks since 2000. 5 obvious busts (Miles, Gordon, Morrison, Dunleavy, Porter. Gordon, Porter and Dunleavy are nice, but should not have been lottery picks, much less #3) out of 16, another 1 (Mayo) that is good and the rest are very good players or are likely to be very good players. That's 6 disappointing #3 picks out of 16, 3/8, and a top 3 is supposed to be getting the pick of the litter. The only disappointment should be that you got a very good player and not a great future-HOF one. You can say what you want about this year's crop, I don't believe that 16 drafts worth of talent are all as weak as this year's.

bob

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Bob,

I mentioned some of these in the "Draft Strategy; What to do with the 3rd pick" thread. If you want to go a little further back you can also find guys named McHale, Billups, and someone by the name of Jordan who were all taken with the 3rd pick.

Pick number 3 can be very good, and I think this year there may be strong options available with that pick that fill needs we have. There could be some new needs too, if Danny starts dealing, and the deals don't have to include this pick.

Regards

NYCelt,

Who do you like at that spot, and if they aren't available who?

bob

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by **RosalieTCeltics** Wed May 18, 2016 7:49 pm

Boy, if you listened to Post Lottery conversation on Boston television, you would have thought that the Celtics came in at 14! It was ridiculous. Shaunessey was so stupid in his analysis and the idiot (Felger)
interviewing him was feeding right into it. Felger is ready for Danny to lost his job this year if it doesn't go as they would expect it.

I personally did let my hopes rise a little when they went to commercial (stupid) but realistically, we did not do too badly. If Brooklyn had not traded JJ, and sat LOpez and Young, we may have gone alot lower. So number three is a gift. I will take it and sit here and watch the rest unfold.

Nothing we say we probably ever come true, as I am sure they already have something they are looking to do with this pick, one way or another.

Rosalie

by **RosalieTCeltics** Wed May 18, 2016 7:49 pm

Boy, if you listened to Post Lottery conversation on Boston television, you would have thought that the Celtics came in at 14! It was ridiculous. Shaunessey was so stupid in his analysis and the idiot (Felger)
interviewing him was feeding right into it. Felger is ready for Danny to lost his job this year if it doesn't go as they would expect it.

I personally did let my hopes rise a little when they went to commercial (stupid) but realistically, we did not do too badly. If Brooklyn had not traded JJ, and sat LOpez and Young, we may have gone alot lower. So number three is a gift. I will take it and sit here and watch the rest unfold.

Nothing we say we probably ever come true, as I am sure they already have something they are looking to do with this pick, one way or another.

Rosalie

by **bobheckler** Wed May 18, 2016 8:21 pm

RosalieTCeltics wrote:Boy, if you listened to Post Lottery conversation on Boston television, you would have thought that the Celtics came in at 14! It was ridiculous. Shaunessey was so stupid in his analysis and the idiot (Felger)
interviewing him was feeding right into it. Felger is ready for Danny to lost his job this year if it doesn't go as they would expect it.

I personally did let my hopes rise a little when they went to commercial (stupid) but realistically, we did not do too badly. If Brooklyn had not traded JJ, and sat LOpez and Young, we may have gone alot lower. So number three is a gift. I will take it and sit here and watch the rest unfold.

Nothing we say we probably ever come true, as I am sure they already have something they are looking to do with this pick, one way or another.

Rosalie

Rosalie,

I agree 100%. We won 8 more games last year, from 40 to 48, and moved up 13 spots in the lottery, from 16 to 3. And people are whining because we ended up exactly where we would have ended up if there was no lottery at all? The choices are obvious, to me. Either we rode Pierce and KG into the sunset and maybe never get within a series (or two!) of the Finals, and still be at the front end of the rebuild now, or we did what Danny did. Once you accept that Danny had to do what he did then every draft pick he got from that is like found money, and a #3 pick is big money. Next year, we get to swap picks with Brooklyn. So, if they still suck (and why wouldn't they? They are even older, they have no first round pick this year and what free agent would want to go to a team that bad?) then we could still be back next year where we are this year and they'll get a pick that is closer to #25 than #16. That won't help them much either, and then we just own their pick outright the year after that.

Whining about getting the #3 pick and that is commensurate with your season record is sad. Whining about getting the #3 pick that is commensurate with a division rival's season record is ridiculous.

bob

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by **arambone** Wed May 18, 2016 8:59 pm

Meanwhile the whiners would have traded half the roster and all of our future draft picks for a top 3 pick last year to draft D'Angelo Russell or Mudiay. Or Justise Winslow.

by **dboss** Thu May 19, 2016 12:16 am

Why are we having a discussion about Bender.

Can someone post his stats?

Potential be damned. Show me the evidence.

Dboss....Rosie you on on the money. There is no crying in basketball when you had and Got the 3rd pick

by **gyso** Thu May 19, 2016 7:16 am

arambone wrote:Meanwhile the whiners would have traded half the roster and all of our future draft picks for a top 3 pick last year to draft D'Angelo Russell or Mudiay. Or Justise Winslow.

Just imagine the regretful posts that would be happening now, calling for Danny Ainge's head (or worse) if the trade had gone through last year with Charlotte. Six draft picks for Winslow was the reported trade. All we can do is now is be happy in the thought that Michael Jordan is a crappy GM and in the failure to close the deal, Danny got lucky.

gyso

by **steve3344** Thu May 19, 2016 8:24 am

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/isola-nba-mock-draft-top-10-picks-article-1.2641716

Frank Isola is a very respected basketball writer.

by **kdp59** Thu May 19, 2016 8:42 am

gyso wrote:
arambone wrote:Meanwhile the whiners would have traded half the roster and all of our future draft picks for a top 3 pick last year to draft D'Angelo Russell or Mudiay. Or Justise Winslow.

Just imagine the regretful posts that would be happening now, calling for Danny Ainge's head (or worse) if the trade had gone through last year with Charlotte. Six draft picks for Winslow was the reported trade. All we can do is now is be happy in the thought that Michael Jordan is a crappy GM and in the failure to close the deal, Danny got lucky.

gyso

Winslow is a good player and I think he'll be a long time starter in the NBA. The kids TOUGH, his defense ability is on par with Smart only he can shoot better right now.

I'd take Winslow over Rozier , Hunter, Thornton and a couple late first round hopefuls right now and I think most NBA GMs would in a heatbeat also.

I am not sure why all the lack of appreciation for Winslow's game, myself. he was a main rotation/starter on a team in the playoffs as a rookie?

by **steve3344** Thu May 19, 2016 8:50 am

And the NY Post's opinion:

http://nypost.com/2016/05/18/our-mock-nba-draft-lottery-tackles-heated-no-1-pick-debate/

Funny line about Celtics potentially drafting Dragen Bender:

"If he turns into the star Boston is lacking, Nets fans will vomit."

I think most Nets fans have been vomiting for a couple years now seeing nothing in return for giving up a Brinks load of draft picks in the heist of the century.

by **cowens/oldschool** Thu May 19, 2016 9:25 am

Ram wrote:I am a firm believer in value of the pick trumping "player my GM desires" which is why Bill Belichick frustrates me so much when he drafts guys whose character, work ethic and intelligence will fit in New England but who all scouts graded out as a 5th-7th rd pick and Bill took him in rd 2 or 3.

I think I would rather see Danny draft Poeltl, Maker, Davis, Brown and Skal over any of the guards mocked in the 3-6 range based on upside and fitting a need. Yet he better be trading down to a guard hungry team like the Kings at 8 or the Bucks at 10 and adding another asset if he goes this route.

"Reaching" for a player in the draft value wise is always a bad thing. Obviously Danny is a great asset collector so this probably won't be an issue for him.

asset collector? so wheres our center been since....????

by **gyso** Thu May 19, 2016 10:53 am

kdp59 wrote:
gyso wrote:
arambone wrote:Meanwhile the whiners would have traded half the roster and all of our future draft picks for a top 3 pick last year to draft D'Angelo Russell or Mudiay. Or Justise Winslow.

Just imagine the regretful posts that would be happening now, calling for Danny Ainge's head (or worse) if the trade had gone through last year with Charlotte. Six draft picks for Winslow was the reported trade. All we can do is now is be happy in the thought that Michael Jordan is a crappy GM and in the failure to close the deal, Danny got lucky.

gyso

Winslow is a good player and I think he'll be a long time starter in the NBA. The kids TOUGH, his defense ability is on par with Smart only he can shoot better right now.

I'd take Winslow over Rozier , Hunter, Thornton and a couple late first round hopefuls right now and I think most NBA GMs would in a heatbeat also.

I am not sure why all the lack of appreciation for Winslow's game, myself. he was a main rotation/starter on a team in the playoffs as a rookie?

I think you missed my point. There were reportedly six draft picks included in the trade for the draft pick for Winslow. Yes, that may have included the picks for Rozier, Hunter, Thornton, etc. It may also have included the one pick that turned out to be #3 this year.

gyso

by **sinus007** Thu May 19, 2016 11:20 am

Hi,
I think the whining about #3 stems from a perceived (or real) difference between #1 and #2 and the rest of the 2016 draft. Especially, it affects the trading value of #1-2 vs #3-x.

AK

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