Draft Pick #1 - 6

Adding the standard 1.5" for sneaker height, that would make Poeltl just under 7'2, by a quarter of an inch. And Maker a solid 7'1.25" in shoes.

NBA Draft ‏@NBADraft 3h3 hours ago
Zhou Qi, 20 years old (China), unofficially has largest wingspan (7'7.75") + standing reach (9'4.5") at '16 combine

That means Thon Maker's reported 9'5.5" standing reach was exaggerated By at least an inch.

bone

I do not see how anyone can compare Poetle to Kevin Mchale.  I watched McHale play in college and the NBA.  Poetle is no Kevin McHale.

I do not think I would use a top pick to get Poeltl.  

We have enough picks to waste a few further down in the draft.  

He will probably be gone before we can use our second pick and there are other centers that will be available later in the draft that quite frankly appear to have more of what we need (physicality in the paint)  Andrew Bogut does not excite me.

I would say that overall this is a very weak draft class for centers

The notion that his (Poeltl) post game will open up shots from outside makes zero sense to me considering the fact that the Celtics got tons and tons and tons of open outside shots all year long.

I'm sticking with the most logical plan.  The Celtics want to live in 3 point heaven but they do not have enough reliable 3 point shooters.  

Therefore you must fix that problem first.   If there was a high end center like Towns that you could draft then I think you would have to draft him but let's be real guys like Poeltl are NOT high end centers that deserve a potential # 3 draft position.

I'm sticking with the plan.  Who is the best damn shooter in the draft?   I'm drafting him.

Who is the 2nd or 3rd best shooters in the draft?  I want to draft them too.

The post game offense as a focal point for today's NBA offense is dead.  

See the help wanted poster...team in need of shooters, shooters and more shooters

dboss

Poeltl puts the ball in the basket at a higher rate than perhaps anybody else in this draft. And now we see he's 7'1.5".

You say the Celtics want to be a chucking team from 3, but maybe that's just because they don't have a great post scorer.

The Celtics are stacked with great guards. Ignoring our front court needs to make a lateral move at guard doesn't make a lot of sense, and I'm guessing Danny and Brad see it that way as well.

Especially since Bradley was injured, during the playoffs that you may be over-reacting to.

Poeltl would instantly be our best frontcourt defender, and our best post scorer. And yes, the best shooter in the draft. You just might not like where he shoots from, out of personal preference.


Towns mostly played PF as a rookie. You keep talking about Poeltl as a center, but I keep talking about Poeltl as a PF.

Poeltl is a better defender than Towns, and a better post scorer. Towns has a better jump shot, out to the 3 point line.

If Towns had been forced to play center full time he would have got pushed around even more, and he probably would have scored less.

Same thing with Porzingis.


Poeltl is a 7'1.5" power forward with the best FG% and True Shooting % in the draft, as well as the best frontcourt defender.


Not a prospect you want to disregard to make a lateral move at guard.

Poeltl college stats:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jakob-poeltl-1.html

Towns college stats:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/karl-anthony-towns-1.html

Poeltl's 2pt FG%, True shooting % and effective fg% are all much better.

Poeltl is one month older than Towns, and put up a similar freshman season last year.

well dboss we do have a lot of guards on the roster under contract for next season.

Bradley
Thomas
Smart
Rozier
Hunter

I think many of us think that Rozier may be able to step in as the 4th guard in a rotation. Leaving little room for an additional high draft pick at guard ( unless we move someone of course).

IMO, what we need is a SF who can score at a high level instead of Turner. that player is not in the top end of this draft though.

so rambones' idea that Poeltl makes sense form a needs standpoint to me. And with 3-4 players all bunched together after the top 2 picks, I think he can make a safe argument that Poeltl should be the pick.

even though I don't like him as much as Rambone does, we all see the rooks with our own eyes for sure.

Poeltl's a freaky combination of so many things.

Hall of Fame tools: Soft touch, elite height, maximum defensive versatility, good passer for a big, can put the ball on the floor, can beat 99% of 7 footers up and down the court, and then he's explosive athletically off one foot.

Very much like a young Pau Gasol, but stronger at the same age and probably a better defender.


I'm the biggest proponent of power forwards and centers who can stretch the floor to the 3 point line, but having a 7'1, almost 7'2" power forward with a feathery scoring touch inside would be even better, since Poeltl's rim protection and rebounding would be an instant upgrade over our personnel.

And like Bob H alluded to, Poeltl could play next to ALL of our bigs, and cover the best offensive big every night.

A 20 year old kid has a long way to go to be compared to Kevin McHale. His foot work was unbelievable, so let's be realistic about comparisons please. I just cannot get into the comparison talk, just inrealistic.

arambone wrote:Poeltl puts the ball in the basket at a higher rate than perhaps anybody else in this draft. And now we see he's 7'1.5".

You say the Celtics want to be a chucking team from 3, but maybe that's just because they don't have a great post scorer.

The Celtics are stacked with great guards. Ignoring our front court needs to make a lateral move at guard doesn't make a lot of sense, and I'm guessing Danny and Brad see it that way as well.

Especially since Bradley was injured, during the playoffs that you may be over-reacting to.

Poeltl would instantly be our best frontcourt defender, and our best post scorer.  And yes, the best shooter in the draft. You just might not like where he shoots from, out of personal preference.


Towns mostly played PF as a rookie. You keep talking about Poeltl as a center, but I keep talking about Poeltl as a PF.

Poeltl is a better defender than Towns, and a better post scorer. Towns has a better jump shot, out to the 3 point line.

If Towns had been forced to play center full time he would have got pushed around even more, and he probably would have scored less.

Same thing with Porzingis.


Poeltl is a 7'1.5" power forward with the best FG% and True Shooting % in the draft, as well as the best frontcourt defender.


Not a prospect you want to disregard to make a lateral move at guard.

Poeltl may turn out to be a good NBA center but let us not assume that he would be our best frontcourt defender.  Defending players in the Pac 12 is not the same as the NBA.  Towns is in a different class than Poeltl which is one reason why he went so high in the draft.  You know sometimes the pundits do get it right.  You keep trying to compare him to this guy and that guy.  

The best shooter in the draft is Buddy Hield that is why comparison are being made to Steph Curry while "Po" gets compared to that illustrious center Andrew Bogut.  The thing that you are really missing is that even if we had a great low post scorer he is not going to get a lot of looks.  The Celtics want to shoot the 3 ball.  After 3 years observing the Celtics under Brad i have figured that one out.

Poeltl really does not fit into the Celtics style of play.   Pace and space.  They do not run a traditional low post offense and they damn sure are not going to change because of the Poeltls of the world.  

The Celtics do have a lot of guards but only 2 of them can consistently make shots (IT and Bradley.  Smart is not a reliable shooter.  Doesn't have the form or the touch and the same was true when he was in college.  Hunter made one big time shot but played in a weak Division in college.  He has some structural issues with the way he shoots the basketball. I have seen nothing that indicates that he will become a reliable knock down shooter.  Rosier came into the league as another poor shooter out of college.  So there you have it the Celts are stacked with lot of guards and 3/5 of them cannot make a shot.  

Get with the program.  The Celtics are not going to take less 3 pointers... they are more likely to take more.  That is today's NBA.  If you disagree that fine but the facts are the facts.

Bradley getting hurt in the playoffs was an unexpected blown at both ends of the court.  But since I have been ranting about the need to improve our 3 point shooting for several years now I assure you that Bradley's injury and my insistence on adding the best possible shooters are totally unrelated.

The way I see it is really quite logical.  The Celtics maintained a high defensive rating but a dreadful offensive rating with respect to their shooting percentages.  So while I would love to get a rim protector and rebounder I do not see one good enough to use our first pick on.  On the other hand we have an opportunity to draft another guard (That's right) who is a high end offensive weapon given the style of play that the Celtics want to utilize.  If we can add 2 more shooters (perimeter shooters) it is not a lateral move.  It is a vertical move.

So what do we do with all the other non-shooting guards on the roster?  We replace them because that is what will be needed if you want to see the Celtics become a contender.   So Hunter and Young are gone.  turner...Gone too.  That gives you at least two open guards spots.  But dboss what if we cannot package them in a trade?

Good questions.  DA should sell some of his picks and then cut young and hunter and eat the salaries.  How much $$$ would that be?  Turner costs us nothing.  Wish him goodbye.  

I would keep Smart and Rosier, Bradley and IT.  I would draft Hield as my shooter coming off the bench until KDP59 figures out a way to trade Bradley.  Smart would be my defensive stopper off the bench.  Then I would draft Valentine (fills a stat sheets points, assists and rebounds) or the French kid to BU Crowder.  Then later in the draft I would go after Jones, Stone or Hammond.  I would then use the first pick in the 2nd round to go after maker if he is available.  

Next I would go after Whiteside or Howard (but i would hold my nose) in free agency but if I could not get either of them I would keep Amir or Zeller but not both of them.  Jerebko could become a casualty in the process.   We will really miss his 4.4 PPG.  

I seriously doubt that the Celtics will be able to land a big time free agent.

The best course of action is to build relentlessly through the draft.  

dboss

"So while I would love to get a rim protector and rebounder I do not see one good enough to use our first pick on."


You still haven't said a word about Poeltl having amazing scoring touch around the basket, and being able to shoot right over power forwards that are usually 6'9-6'10" tall.


Do you have any thoughts on that? Because that's a pretty Amazing thing for a "rim protector and rebounder" to have.

Amazing shooting touch around the basket, a 3-4" height advantage, And he's a rim protector, rebounder, and PnR defender and scorer.


And yes, of course he fits the Celtics' style because he flies up and down the court like a 6'7" forward. He's also very versatile on defense, which is Exactly what the Celtics are About.

Jared Sullinger fit our style of play well enough, but Poeltl is exactly what we would be looking for if we were going to write down a wish list of traits of our dream top 5 draft pick.

Dominant, Pau/McHale level power forward /slash/ mobile uptempo center/rim protector.

that's exactly what we'd look for.

arambone wrote:"So while I would love to get a rim protector and rebounder I do not see one good enough to use our first pick on."


You still haven't said a word about Poeltl having amazing scoring touch around the basket, and being able to shoot right over power forwards that are usually 6'9-6'10" tall.


Do you have any thoughts on that? Because that's a pretty Amazing thing for a "rim protector and rebounder" to have.

Amazing shooting touch around the basket, a 3-4" height advantage, And he's a rim protector, rebounder, and PnR defender and scorer.


And yes, of course he fits the Celtics' style because he flies up and down the court like a 6'7" forward. He's also very versatile on defense, which is Exactly what the Celtics are About.

Jared Sullinger fit our style of play well enough, but Poeltl is exactly what we would be looking for if we were going to write down a wish list of traits of our dream top 5 draft pick.

Dominant, Pau/McHale level power forward /slash/ mobile uptempo center/rim protector.

that's exactly what we'd look for.

Yes he is very good at making layups.  His highlight films are pathetic. He cannot step out and shoot from 10 feet.  He is a flawed center.  He is not going to be able to do the same thing in college because he did struggle to shoot over taller more physical centers.  Even if a center cannot stretch the floor he has to at least be able to make those elbow jumpers.  Where is the evidence that he can do that?  Stop mentioning him in the same sentence as Kevin Mchale.  It is an abomination.  He is not Kevin Mchale.  Mchale had more moves than Allied Vans and could make 3 point shots too.

We already have Poeltl on the team.  His name is Zeller but Zeller is better than Poeltl.

Poeltl is on my not wish list.

dboss

Other than Bender, who will probably never grow into an NBA center, he would need TOO many pounds for that, there really aren't any high quality NBA centers in this year's draft.  If Poetl or Hammons or Stone were really good they'd be top 3 because that's where high-quality 5s get picked.  Instead, we have a player who is described as "Durant-like" in Ingram (certainly nothing wrong with that!), a 6'9" point forward, a Porzingis clone and then a lot of good but not great players (although Buddy Hield seems to be the flavor-du-jour).


I think Danny is going to have to upgrade our center position via free agency or trade, not through the draft.  At least, not THIS draft.

This is a shooter's league now, shooters and runners.  We need shooters, that was made painfully clear in the playoffs.  Yes, we lost 2 good shooters and those are hard losses for any team to overcome in such a short time, but it also highlighted where we are thinnest.  When our only dinosaur gets benched in favor of a Swedish Army Knife because we need more offense, that pretty much sums it up to me.


bob


.

Bob H wrote:If Poetl or Hammons or Stone were really good they'd be top 3 because that's where high-quality 5s get picked.

Bob H wrote:This is a shooter's league now

If this is a shooter's league, then high-quality centers aren't automatic top 3 picks.

And Poeltl's best position isn't even center.


Bob, surely you can appreciate a 7'1.5" power forward with feathery scoring touch and the ability to run up and down the court like a guard.

It's basic physics. A 7'1.5" power forward can get his shot off at will against 6'9-6'10" power forwards.


Last year Draft Express and everybody else had D'Angelo Russell and Okafor ranked clearly ahead of Porzingis.


Like you guys who keep repeating that Poeltl is a center, DX never stopped to consider that Porzingis was an above average starting power forward from day 1. Nope, Porzingis was just a really skinny center who was years away from filling out.

Same thing with Myles Turner, who was ranked around 10th all last spring before the draft.

Draft Express also Completely slept on Rudy Gobert and Nikol Jokic.

And yet they keep making the same mistake every single year when it comes to PF/Cs.

And what's nuts is Poeltl is a better post scorer than ALL those guys, and about as good as Okafor in the post. But with the ability to run up and down the court like a guard.

bobheckler wrote:Other than Bender, who will probably never grow into an NBA center, he would need TOO many pounds for that, there really aren't any high quality NBA centers in this year's draft.  If Poetl or Hammons or Stone were really good they'd be top 3 because that's where high-quality 5s get picked.  Instead, we have a player who is described as "Durant-like" in Ingram (certainly nothing wrong with that!), a 6'9" point forward, a Porzingis clone and then a lot of good but not great players (although Buddy Hield seems to be the flavor-du-jour).


I think Danny is going to have to upgrade our center position via free agency or trade, not through the draft.  At least, not THIS draft.

This is a shooter's league now, shooters and runners.  We need shooters, that was made painfully clear in the playoffs.  Yes, we lost 2 good shooters and those are hard losses for any team to overcome in such a short time, but it also highlighted where we are thinnest.  When our only dinosaur gets benched in favor of a Swedish Army Knife because we need more offense, that pretty much sums it up to me.


bobh


.

Bobh

I agree with you about the centers in this draft. The good thing is that we can still draft one later in the first round.

dboss

arambone wrote:

Bob H wrote:If Poetl or Hammons or Stone were really good they'd be top 3 because that's where high-quality 5s get picked.

Bob H wrote:This is a shooter's league now

If this is a shooter's league, then high-quality centers aren't automatic top 3 picks.

And Poeltl's best position isn't even center.


Bob, surely you can appreciate a 7'1.5" power forward with feathery scoring touch and the ability to run up and down the court like a guard.

It's basic physics. A 7'1.5" power forward can get his shot off at will against 6'9-6'10" power forwards.


Last year Draft Express and everybody else had D'Angelo Russell and Okafor ranked clearly ahead of Porzingis.


Like you guys who keep repeating that Poeltl is a center, DX never stopped to consider that Porzingis was an above average starting power forward from day 1. Nope, Porzingis was just a really skinny center who was years away from filling out.

Same thing with Myles Turner, who was ranked around 10th all last spring before the draft.

Draft Express also Completely slept on Rudy Gobert and Nikol Jokic.

And yet they keep making the same mistake every single year when it comes to PF/Cs.

And what's nuts is Poeltl is a better post scorer than ALL those guys, and about as good as Okafor in the post. But with the ability to run up and down the court like a guard.

Bone i guess we are wrong.  Poeltl is a PF.  

If that is the case you have just made another good reason not to draft him.

Whether he is a center/PF really does not make a big difference.  He can not make a 10 footer.  You know as the league has move toward more small ball we are starting to see more SF swing over to the PF position.  All that speed and feathery touch you keep talking about will certainly be needed when he is having to check NBA quality Power Forwards.  It would be nic eif he had that feathery touch shooting jump shots when facing the basket.

If you watch the videos closer you will see that a lot of his scores are layups or short jump hooks over the left shoulder.  That is pretty much it in terms of his offense.  it will take a lot more than that to play PF/C.  NBA players are bigger stronger and faster than anything he has faced in 2 years of college.

But  I am not concerned because i would be shocked if Danny wasted a pick on him

Sorry bone but i am not sold on this kid at Pick # 3.  or 4,5 or 6 for that matter.  He is mid-round talent at best.

dboss

"If you watch the videos closer you will see that a lot of his scores are layups or short jump hooks over the left shoulder. That is pretty much it in terms of his offense."

Even if you only watched one 5 minute clip you'd be able to see he has more moves than that.

cowens/oldschool wrote:

Ktronic1 wrote:

dboss wrote:You can scratch a few players off this list as far as what Boston needs is concerend

you can begin with Bender

Dunn is a PG so we do not need him
Brown can not shoot so scratch him off

I would keep the rest and add Buddy to the list.  Screw Draft Express.

dboss

Just curious. Why would you scratch Bender?

Defense

Cow

to be honest i have not seen a lot of film on bender. However the stats that I have seen makes me scratch my head as I do not see how he is rated as high as his is. Skills not supported by more statistical data should be viewed with a high degree of skepticism.

The stats on Draftexpress indicated 38 games played Eurocup 4.4 PPG and 2.4 rebounds (2015-16).

I think that because Porzingis has come into the league and played well (except his shooting still sucks) some pundits are over-hyping Bender.

dboss

arambone wrote:"If you watch the videos closer you will see that a lot of his scores are layups or short jump hooks over the left shoulder.  That is pretty much it in terms of his offense."

Even if you only watched one 5 minute clip you'd be able to see he has more moves than that.

ummmm.....NO

dboss

Bone
And what about the missing jump shot?   Where is the freakin jumper.  I saw one jumper on a collection of highlights.  Come now you say he is a PF.  So I think it is fair to say he is a PF that has no jumper?  Ok so he would have to develop that part of his game assuming his feathery touch extends out beyond 3 feet.  But that is a major skill that is needed to be an effective PF in the NBA.

2/3 of those easy layups  that he got  in college are gone in the NBA.  He may not have the physical strength to establish himself in the post.  Do you honestly think that teams are going to let him have his way in the paint.  He reminds me of our guy Tyler Zeller except Zeller is a pretty good mid-range jump shooter.  The toughest most athletic players get banged around in the paint.  If he makes it in the NBA he could become a decent rotation player like KO.

KO is as slow as dirt yet he can get to the rim, albeit awkwardly, because teams know he can knock down the 3 ball.  If Kelly could not shoot the three he would be totally useless because teams would play off him and sag in the middle and he would not have the speed and agility to get to the rim.  Po appears to be 1/2 step quicker than KO but without the threat of making an outside shot he would be a non-factor offensively.

I think. if you have the 3rd pick in the draft you should draft a player that is a bit further along.  

dboss

I've been noticing that Draft Express in general really doesn't value defense that much. Barely at all. If that.

dboss wrote:Bone
And what about the missing jump shot?   Where is the freakin jumper.  I saw one jumper on a collection of highlights.  Come now you say he is a PF.  So I think it is fair to say he is a PF that has no jumper?  Ok so he would have to develop that part of his game assuming his feathery touch extends out beyond 3 feet.  But that is a major skill that is needed to be an effective PF in the NBA.

2/3 of those easy layups  that he got  in college are gone in the NBA.  He may not have the physical strength to establish himself in the post.  Do you honestly think that teams are going to let him have his way in the paint.  He reminds me of our guy Tyler Zeller except Zeller is a pretty good mid-range jump shooter.  The toughest most athletic players get banged around in the paint.  If he makes it in the NBA he could become a decent rotation player like KO.

KO is as slow as dirt yet he can get to the rim, albeit awkwardly, because teams know he can knock down the 3 ball.  If Kelly could not shoot the three he would be totally useless because teams would play off him and sag in the middle and he would not have the speed and agility to get to the rim.  Po appears to be 1/2 step quicker than KO but without the threat of making an outside shot he would be a non-factor offensively.

I think. if you have the 3rd pick in the draft you should draft a player that is a bit further along.  

dboss

Dboss, Poeltl almost doubled his FT% this past year, up to 69% on a large sample size of 6 per game.

He's a bit of a late bloomer but is really growing into his 7'1.5" frame. So in one year he radically improved his FT% while emerging as an elite post scorer with perhaps the best scoring efficiency in this draft.


I'm not too worried about Poeltl being able to continue improving his FT%, which is already great for a 7 footer, and I'm not too worried about him being able to expand his shooting range out to mid-range with more practice. He already shows Great scoring touch inside, and his FT shooting is already good for a 7 footer.

I also watched him knock down his only FIBA 3 point attempt in a game Vs Lithuania last summer, and knock down a couple other mid-range jumpers. That was the game he dropped 27 points on Jonas Valanciunas and Sabonis Jr.
For Austria he's the starting PF, not center, and his jump shot looks very smooth when he shoots it.

He's also amazing in PnR situations rolling to the rim with his length, athleticism, and especially his one leg jumping ability. At Utah this year he rarely got to pick and roll, unlike the year before when he played with Raptor Delon Wright. And he was great at rolling to the rim as a freshman.


The dude is 7'1, 240, with tons of room to fill out further. You say he won't have the size advantage that he did in college, but he'll still have a distinct size advantage.


I guess it's just one of those things that people won't believe until they see it with their own eyes, like Porzingis being NBA ready and starting PF material last year.

Dboss, about this I totally agree -
"The best course of action is to build relentlessly through the draft." MikeDfromNP is soon to join our Forum (when he can get to a computer) and he makes that very argument eloquently. He recited to me a list of great NBA players selected in the 2009-2013 drafts from the 4th to 9th picks. Any team that had 2 or 3 of them would be in solid championship contention, and the Celts are primed to do just that. Think who our number 10 pick was in 1998 - Paul Pierce!

If Danny is patient and drafts well in the next 3 drafts (remember he'll have Brooklyn's low, low pick to use for the next three years) we could be in fabulous shape for years to come. Low price tags on those draft picks. Big upsides. And Danny can still sign decent free agents like Pau Gasol to fill present day needs. Danny, don't trade our low draft picks. Don't do it (unless some whacko GM offers us a steal of a deal).

About Poeltl, he'll be big enough, strong enough, and quick enough to be a decent NBA center. Good free throw % for a center already. Good defender. Good moves down low, close to the basket. But you're right. He shows nothing on video from more than very few feet away from the basket. Why is that? Did his videographer dislike compiling clips of outside shots? Did Poeltl simply not take and make many? Is he incapable of making outside shots? If the latter, then you're right, Dboss; Danny should wait until deeper in the draft to use a pick on him. For sure Danny will know the answers to those questions by draft day. He and his crew will watch ALL the film on any and all players in whom the Celts have any interest. Plus Danny will have those guys in for on court inspection.

Poeltl hardly took any shots outside of 7 feet.

But part of that is playing center. Jordan Mickey was a better shooter than he was ever allowed to show in college, where he played center. Same with Willie Cauley Stein.

If a guy can shoot 69% from th FT line he can polish up a decent mid-range jump shot from the same area.

worcester wrote:Dboss, about this I totally agree -  
     "The best course of action is to build relentlessly through the draft." MikeDfromNP is soon to join our Forum (when he can get to a computer) and he makes that very argument eloquently. He recited to me a list of great NBA players selected in the 2009-2013 drafts from the 4th to 9th picks. Any team that had 2 or 3 of them would be in solid championship contention, and the Celts are primed to do just that. Think who our number 10 pick was in 1998 - Paul Pierce!

If Danny is patient and drafts well in the next 3 drafts (remember he'll have Brooklyn's low, low pick to use for the next three years) we could be in fabulous shape for years to come. Low price tags on those draft picks. Big upsides. And Danny can still sign decent free agents like Pau Gasol to fill present day needs. Danny, don't trade our low draft picks. Don't do it (unless some whacko GM offers us a steal of a deal).

About Poeltl, he'll be big enough, strong enough, and quick enough to be a decent NBA center. Good free throw % for a center already. Good defender. Good moves down low, close to the basket. But you're right. He shows nothing on video from more than very few feet away from the basket. Why is that? Did his videographer dislike compiling clips of outside shots? Did Poeltl simply not take and make many? Is he incapable of making outside shots? If the latter, then you're right, Dboss; Danny should wait until deeper in the draft to use a pick on him. For sure Danny will know the answers to those questions by draft day. He and his crew will watch ALL the film on any and all players in whom the Celts have any interest. Plus Danny will have those guys in for on court inspection.

W -

MikeDfromNP...now there's a name from he past! I don't think I've heard anything from him since the get together at the Allston Sports Depot, which I understand closed.

We'll look forward to hearing from him.

Regards

Worcester please tell MikeDfromNP we look forward to him joining the Forum!