Re: The Celtics 2022 Offseason Thread

[gyso]

Revisiting Celtics TPE Targets

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/7/18/23268517/revisiting-boston-celtics-tpe-targets

By Keith P Smith  Jul 18, 2022

The Boston Celtics $17.1 million Traded Player Exception (TPE) has hit its expiration date. It’s now or never for Boston to use the current largest TPE in the NBA.

With the Celtics already $20 million over the tax line, with three roster spots still to fill, it’s unlikely they use much, if any, of this TPE. Yes, Brad Stevens has said Boston ownership gave him the “greenlight to do whatever we need to do”, but that doesn’t mean you speed through that greenlight at 100 MPH.

That the Celtics have pushed to $20 million over the tax already is fairly remarkable. That means they are facing an actual tax bill of over $45 million. Filling out the roster will push that number north of $50 million.

More simply put: It’s not really reasonable to expect ownership to add $10-15 million more salary, which would push the actual tax bill well north $60 million. That would be more than every team other than the Golden State Warriors and LA Clippers, who are breaking records in tax payments.

But, for the sake of dreaming, let’s say that greenlight is truly as green as it gets and the Celtics can use as much of the TPE as they want before it disappears forever. In that case, let’s examine who Boston could chase.

We wrote an original list of 25 TPE targets before the summer started. About half of the names listed then are no longer available, or Boston having done roster work of their own has changed their needs.

On the original list, there was a heavy focus on scoring, shooting and playmaking off the bench. The Celtics filled those needs with Malcolm Brogdon and Danilo Gallinari. Now, the primary need is for a backup big, with the secondary need being for a wing with some size.

With all that said, here’s updated list of TPE targets, assuming Boston is going deeper than ever into the tax this coming season:


1. Kelly Olynyk - $12,804,878 – Detroit Pistons: Detroit is flush with bigs now. And they are young bigs that need to play. The Celtics could probably get Olynyk without sending much to the Pistons. And he’d fit in perfectly on both ends of the floor.

2. Kenrich Williams - $2,000,000 – Oklahoma City Thunder: The Thunder roster is loaded with players who need to play. Where does that leave Williams? This one makes a lot of sense too because of his very low salary. The challenge? Sam Presti doesn’t let anyone go cheaply.

3. Mason Plumlee - $9,080,417 – Charlotte Hornets: With Boston having filled their other needs, it pushes Plumlee up this list. The Hornets drafted Mark Williams and presumably will want to play him, while also saving some small-ball minutes for P.J. Washington. Plumlee could probably be acquired without the Celtics have having to send much to Charlotte.

4. Cameron Johnson - $5,887,899 – Phoenix Suns: Johnson is one of the few players who makes under $10M on this list. The Suns tax bill is now way higher than Robert Sarver wants it to be after matching the offer sheet for Deandre Ayton. This might be a spot where Boston could sneak in and steal Johnson on the cheap.

5. Jae Crowder - $10,183,800 – Phoenix Suns: Another old friend! And we’ve satisfied CelticsBlog editor extraordinaire Billy Sy’s requirement of some former Celtics on the list! Same situation as Johnson, as far as the Suns cutting their tax bill goes. But Crowder’s shooting was really, really bad last year. Boston would have to hope that can bounce back, or they’re best to stay away.

6. Duncan Robinson - $16,902,000 – Miami Heat: If the Heat are really open to straight dumping Robinson, why not? Boston had the defense to cover for him. If Robinson gets back to being a 40%+ three-point shooter, then you can play him 20-25 minutes a night off the bench without much worry.

7. Lauri Markkanen - $16,475,454 – Cleveland Cavaliers: This one only works if you think Markkanen can be the backup center. If so, he’s not a bad option. If you don’t think he can hold down that spot, there’s too much overlap with Danilo Gallinari here for this to make sense.

8. Richaun Holmes - $11,215,260 – Sacramento Kings: Another big. You know the drill by now. Holmes would be more of a pure backup for Robert Williams, but he’d be a really nice insurance policy behind the oft-injured Lord of Time.

9. Nerlens Noel - $9,240,000 – Detroit Pistons: Noel is a Boston kid and has been a rumored Celtics target for years. The challenge is that he’s rarely healthy and he’s basically a poor man’s version of Rob Williams at this point. The good news? Detroit would probably let him go for a song. The bad news? Noel is healthy less often than Williams is.

10. Derrick Favors - $10,183,800 – Oklahoma City Thunder: We’ve hit the “expendable Thunder bigs” section of the TPE targets. Getting an older big from OKC worked out pretty good last year, and Favors can still hold his own against some of the bigger centers Boston might see in the postseason.

11. JaMychal Green - $8,200,000 – Oklahoma City Thunder: Sam Presti already said Green would be traded. He’d cost less than half of the Fournier TPE. But Green is losing his athleticism, and that’s what made him special. Not sure he’s an upgrade over any of the bigs Boston already has, and he really not a five.

12. Terrence Ross - $11,500,000 – Orlando Magic: Ross is another one-skill player, which basically makes up the rest of the list. The challenge is his one skill of shooting comes and goes. The Celtics might need a little more consistency as a title contender. And $11.5 million is a lot for a guy who would be only a sometimes 10th man.

13. Torrey Craig - $5,121,951 – Phoenix Suns: This would be a defensive addition on the wing. He doesn’t fit the need for bench scoring, but Craig would fit in perfectly as a switchable defender, plus his deal is pretty cheap. And again, Phoenix might be looking to shed salary to cut their own tax bill.

14. Malik Beasley - $15,558,035 – Utah Jazz: Beasley is one of the better scorers on this list. If it weren’t for some off-court issues, he’d rank a lot higher on the list. As it is, that’s enough of a concern that is pushes him down to this point. But Utah and Danny Ainge might be opening to moving off salary for not much of a return.

15. Jordan Clarkson - $13,340,000 – Utah Jazz: Clarkson can score, but he’s rapidly declining in his efficiency as a scorer. If you hand him a bench role, you have to live with some mindboggling shot selection, while also giving Clarkson the leeway to cook. That doesn’t seem very Celtics-like, and that’s before you factor in his lack of defense. Boston basically filled what Clarkson would have given them with Brogdon.

[dbrown4]

Thanks for the heads up as always, Bobh!

db

BTW, for the CBA-challenged, what does the "E" in TPE exempt you from exactly?

[bobheckler]

Thanks for the heads up as always, Bobh!

db

BTW, for the CBA-challenged, what does the "E" in TPE exempt you from exactly?  

DB,

Traded Player Exception


Bob


.

[dboss]

I would be very surprised if the Celtics use any part of the big TPE. They really do not need to use it.

They still need to add 3 players but I expect them to go bargain shopping with vet minimum deals in their pocket.

[dboss]

If Boston was looking for YOY improvement from Begarin, I think he passed the test.

Last year  Begarin averaged 6.2 points, 3.4 rebounds, and 3 assists on an average of 24 minutes per game.

This summer he averaged 18.2 PPG and 5.6 rebounds, 2.4 assists in 31 MPG.

His last 2 games has swayed me to hoping he sticks this year. They can offer him the minimum rookie salary of $1,004,000.

[dboss]

Any additional salary with be taxed at a rate of 3.75

Celts tax bill is now around $45 million

[bobheckler]

Any additional salary with be taxed at a rate of 3.75

Celts tax bill is now around $45 million

Dboss,

Wouldn't the TPE offset any salary cap impact? Am I not understanding how the TPE works? Isn't it so that a team can take on more salary without affecting their team cap?


Bob


.

[bobheckler]

IF we do not use the Fournier TPE by midnight tonight the book on Gordon Hayward will be closed.

We used the Hayward TPE to get Fournier, which in turn created another TPE.  Danny, basically, rolled it forward another year.  If this expires unused then, in the final analysis, we gave up Gordon Hayward and got half a season of Fournier in return, and that half season was, to say the least, unsatisfying.


Bob


.

[dbrown4]

Ahhh. I always thought it was "E"xemption! Well who's the idiot now?!!!

db

[gyso]

The E in TPE stands for "Exception".  In order to add any salary for a team over the salary cap, a team must use an exception.  Then the amount is added to team salary.

Examples:

Larry Bird Exception
Tax Payer's Mid-Level Exception
Minimum Player Salary Exception (aka: vet minimum)

Use link for more:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25

All player salaries add up to team salary.  If the team salary goes over the luxury tax level amount, the team pays the luxury tax at a rate of 3.75 (in this case for $20M over) or more.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q18

Example:

Kelly Olynyk makes $12,804,878 (from the article above).  $12,804,878 x 3.75 = $48,018,293.50

That is in addition to his regular salary.  Does the ownership group want to pay that much for this kind of player?  Doubtful.

The team already finagled a Malcolm Brogden addition and all the future salary that comes with his contract.  So it may be addition to the team bench by trade instead of by the big TPE.  So perhaps this one just ends up not being used.

The smaller TPE's do not carry such a big number to multiply by 3.75 (or more).  They also don't expire until much later, so the team can look for more bang for the (smaller) buck by waiting to use them later.

[gyso]

IF we do not use the Fournier TPE by midnight tonight the book on Gordon Hayward will be closed.

We used the Hayward TPE to get Fournier, which in turn created another TPE.  Danny, basically, rolled it forward another year.  If this expires unused then, in the final analysis, we gave up Gordon Hayward and got half a season of Fournier in return, and that half season was, to say the least, unsatisfying.


Bob


.

Bob,

You cannot always look at it that way.  

Hayward was gone anyway.  The TPE was a gift from Charlotte.  It was merely a means for us to add salary in the future because we were over the salary cap.  Danny kicked it down the road with the Fournier TPE.  Who knew that Brad would add salary (Brogden) by trading for spare parts instead of by using the TPE.  That was brilliant.

The Fournier debacle was mostly caused by covid's effects on the team.  He tested positive before he even showed up to play.  Then didn't he also test positive later on in the season?  That, along with everyone else on the team that was in and out of the active healthy roster changed the course of that season.  That is true for us and every other team during 2019-2020 and 2020-2021.

[worcester]

With the Luxury Tax, Kelly Oubre cost GSW $80M for the one short year he underwhelmed them with 15.4 ppg in 30 minutes average playing time.

No way should we spend over $60M to have a chance to see Kelly Olynyk play..

[dboss]

I think Brad mentioned future TPE's that do not expire until Feb 2023.

I do not think Brad will add 3 more contracts. Maybe 2 and keep an open roster spot.

I am still waiting for the much talked about center although I am not sure the team needs another one.

[cowens/oldschool]

If Boston was looking for YOY improvement from Begarin, I think he passed the test.

Last year  Begarin averaged 6.2 points, 3.4 rebounds, and 3 assists on an average of 24 minutes per game.

This summer he averaged 18.2 PPG and 5.6 rebounds, 2.4 assists in 31 MPG.

His last 2 games has swayed me to hoping he sticks this year.  They can offer him the minimum rookie salary of $1,004,000.  

I thought he was the most impressive player on our team in the SL, he seemed to get better and better each game. He can add pace and tenacity both ends, he attacks fast. Some pundits were comparing him to Westbrook last summer, last year didn’t see that at all; this year I could see that and saw some glimmers that reminded me a little of a young Igoudala and Drexler. I think he would only develop faster here in the G league with our coaching staff. If this kid can develop a jumper, look out!! I could see him being a great compliment to the 2 J’s.

[bobheckler]

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2022/07/why-celtics-allowed-evan-fournier-trade-exception-worth-171-million-to-expire-unused.html



Why Celtics allowed Evan Fournier trade exception worth $17.1 million to expire unused


Published: Jul. 18, 2022, 9:24 p.m.


By Brian Robb | brobb@masslive.com



The Celtics gave up a pair of second-round picks last offseason in a Evan Fournier sign-and-trade with the New York Knicks in order to create a $17.1 million trade exception. The move was done in order to give the team some flexibility to replace Fournier’s salary slot for the next year in a separate deal. However, that opportunity came to an end on Monday as sources indicated that the team would let one of the biggest TPEs in the NBA expire unused Monday night, a scenario that MassLive had reported was coming since the team executed a trade for Malcolm Brogdon earlier this month.


Why exactly did the team elect to let the Fournier TPE expire? And what means do they have to still improve the roster moving forward?

The Malcolm Brogdon trade was a better use of Fournier TPE: The point guard’s 2022-23 salary was too big to fit into the Fournier TPE so the Celtics had to make the money match in this trade under CBA rules. Make no mistake though, this deal was essentially a replacement for using a Fournier TPE from a team-building perspective, adding a significant roster upgrade for a sizable salary. Boston also managed to achieve numerous goals in this trade in a single transaction.

The Celtics were going to need to dump some salary if they landed a player making over $10 million per year with the Fournier TPE given their current payroll obligations. Boston managed to do that in their swap with the Pacers by moving Daniel Theis and Aaron Nesmith in the swap for Brogdon. This proved to be valuable since it avoided them having to use a potential sweetener to dump Theis’ contract in a separate deal.


In short, Boston landed a superior player compared to any realistic Fournier TPE options in Brogdon, which suddenly made using the Fournier TPE a lot less important this month.

The bench is stacked so finding upgrades isn’t easy: The Celtics still have a couple areas of need to fill out their bench, with a backup big and a wing singled out as needs by Ime Udoka last week. However, Boston’s bench (Payton Pritchard, Derrick White, Danilo Gallinari, Malcolm Brogdon, Grant Williams) suddenly looks like one of the deepest second units in the league. Upgrades could be made but likely none at a price the Celtics were willing to pay for a player that could fit into the Fournier TPE.


The Celtics could still try to balance the bench with another proven big via trade or via free agency with a veteran’s minimum but the Fournier TPE wouldn’t be necessary to find a potential fit.

The luxury tax penalties are real now: Boston is currently projected to pay $45 million in luxury tax with their current roster and will be paying $3.25 in penalties for every additional dollar spent on the roster moving forward. For that reason, the team is not going to add any bloated contracts to the roster if there is not a clear role for said player, per sources. Boston’s ownership is living up to their promise of being big spenders (Boston has the fifth highest payroll in NBA currently for next year) but the team will likely be in the luxury tax for the foreseeable future with this contending core. That means adding more big salary doesn’t happen unless a big role is needed to be filled and that guy wasn’t available with the Fournier TPE.


What else can Celtics still do to add to the roster?


Brad Stevens is limited to veteran’s minimum contracts going forward in free agency. However, the team still has two TPEs remaining via Juancho Hernangomez ($6.9 million remaining) and Dennis Schroder ($5.9 million remaining) trades last year that won’t expire until January and February respectively.

If Boston finds one more cheap piece they like midseason, those TPEs could prove to be valuable to add a name without subtracting a significant player from the roster.


Bob


.

[dboss]

If Boston was looking for YOY improvement from Begarin, I think he passed the test.

Last year  Begarin averaged 6.2 points, 3.4 rebounds, and 3 assists on an average of 24 minutes per game.

This summer he averaged 18.2 PPG and 5.6 rebounds, 2.4 assists in 31 MPG.

His last 2 games has swayed me to hoping he sticks this year.  They can offer him the minimum rookie salary of $1,004,000.  

I thought he was the most impressive player on our team in the SL, he seemed to get better and better each game. He can add pace and tenacity both ends, he attacks fast. Some pundits were comparing him to Westbrook last summer, last year didn’t see that at all; this year I could see that and saw some glimmers that reminded me a little of a young Igoudala and Drexler. I think he would only develop faster here in the G league with our coaching staff. If this kid can develop a jumper, look out!! I could see him being a great compliment to the 2 J’s.

Cow I am with you on that. The fact that the Maine Celtics play the same offense and defense as the main club serves as a training ground. With both Langford and Nesmith traded, the Celtics need to develop a young guard/wing. I think Bergarin could be that guy. The cost would be less than if they went out and signed some veteran. Let's wait and see what Brad does. So far brad has done a very good job retooling the team for next season. With the exception of Kornet. We did not care much for Enes because he could not defend. However he was an excellent rebounder and could score at the rim. What the hell can Kornet do for us????????

[dboss]

Bob

There are no more cheap pieces. Anyone that is added with or without using a TPE will add to the luxury tax unless the guy coming in makes less than the guy going out.

[prakash]

So two 2nd rounders get the Hayward TPE, then two 2nd rounders to get Fournier and then two 2nd rounders to get the Fournier TPE. Lucky that Danny had collected all those. Otherwise there wouldn't be any 2nd round picks left to include in future trades.

In the net, perhaps we should add these to the cost of acquiring Brogdon. Still a good trade.

[cowens/oldschool]

If Boston was looking for YOY improvement from Begarin, I think he passed the test.

Last year  Begarin averaged 6.2 points, 3.4 rebounds, and 3 assists on an average of 24 minutes per game.

This summer he averaged 18.2 PPG and 5.6 rebounds, 2.4 assists in 31 MPG.

His last 2 games has swayed me to hoping he sticks this year.  They can offer him the minimum rookie salary of $1,004,000.  

I thought he was the most impressive player on our team in the SL, he seemed to get better and better each game. He can add pace and tenacity both ends, he attacks fast. Some pundits were comparing him to Westbrook last summer, last year didn’t see that at all; this year I could see that and saw some glimmers that reminded me a little of a young Igoudala and Drexler. I think he would only develop faster here in the G league with our coaching staff. If this kid can develop a jumper, look out!! I could see him being a great compliment to the 2 J’s.

Cow I am with you on that.  The fact that the Maine Celtics play the same offense and defense as the main club serves as a training ground.  With both Langford and Nesmith traded, the Celtics need to develop a young guard/wing.  I think Bergarin could be that guy.  The cost would be less than if they went out and signed some veteran.  Let's wait and see what Brad does.  So far brad has done a very good job retooling the team for next season.  With the exception of Kornet.  We did not care much for Enes because he could not defend.  However he was an excellent rebounder and could score at the rim.  What the hell can Kornet do for us????????

I was much more impressed with his fearless running style than anything I saw from Langford or Nesmith back in the recent day, no hesitation from Bergarin at all. If we still have 2-3 spots available, I’d sign him to a 2 way. I still have no idea what BS sees in Kornet?

[worcester]

Kornet is such a big mystery that Brad MUST have something up his sleeve regarding Big Luke. Remember...you have to tack on the $6.75M luxury tax to Luke's base $2M contract. How does Brad explain that $8.75M total for Luke to Wyc?

[prakash]

Kornet is such a big mystery that Brad MUST have something up his sleeve regarding Big Luke. Remember...you have to tack on the $6.75M luxury tax to Luke's base $2M contract. How does Brad explain that $8.75M total for Luke to Wyc?

Can't have your $200M investment collapse to save $3M. They are required to keep a 15 man roster at minimum salary (I believe approx. $1M). So the extra hit is half of $8.75M.

Basically when you are going for it, you can't leave yourself vulnerable to a single point of failure. It is conceivable that they may add salary at the trade deadline an I believe that they will only pay tax on the part year salary.

[worcester]

YOUR MATH IS CORRECT PRAKASH.

[bobheckler]

Chris Forsberg @ChrisForsberg_
about 9 minutes ago
Three notable moments from Grant Williams' appearance on Duncan Robinson's podcast: Grant watched Kelly Olynyk's famous Game 7 vs. Wizards an hour before Game 7 vs. Bucks. Then went out and scored 27 points on 7 3-pointers. Grant: "Channel Kelly."


Bob
MY NOTE:  Kelly Olynyk's heroics were the inspiration for Grant's Game 7?!  Cowens just threw up a little bit into his mouth.


.

[bobheckler]

Kornet is such a big mystery that Brad MUST have something up his sleeve regarding Big Luke. Remember...you have to tack on the $6.75M luxury tax to Luke's base $2M contract. How does Brad explain that $8.75M total for Luke to Wyc?

Can't have your $200M investment collapse to save $3M.  They are required to keep a 15 man roster at minimum salary (I believe approx. $1M).  So the extra hit is half of $8.75M.

Basically when you are going for it, you can't leave yourself vulnerable to a single point of failure.  It is conceivable that they may add salary at the trade deadline an I believe that they will only pay tax on the part year salary.

Prakash,


"While individual teams must carry a minimum of 13 (12 active plus one inactive) players, the NBA guarantees a league-wide average of at least 14 players per team. The league is surcharged if they do not meet the average."  Wikipedia, NBA CBA


1.  "The league is surcharged".  It doesn't say "the individual team".  I presume the extra is paid to the Players' Association.

2. It's a "league average". So any team carrying 15 players will average out the Celtics if they only have 13.

3.  Teams can have 13 players, minimum, but only for 2 weeks.  Then the minimum is, I believe, 14 players.


So, they need to add one by Opening Night in October and then one more within 2 weeks after that.


Bob


.

[gyso]

From Larry Coon's NBA Salary Cap FAQ, Question 79:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q79

79. What roster size limits exist? What is the Inactive List? What is Injured Reserve? Do any other such lists exist?

Normally an NBA team can have a maximum of 15 players on its roster during a season (and up to 20 during the offseason, starting on the day after the team's season ends). A team normally has 12 or 13 players on its Active List, who are eligible to play in games, and can have as few as 11 for up to two weeks at a time. Any remaining players must be on the team's Inactive List, and are ineligible to play in games. Teams temporarily can have four players on their Inactive List (bringing their roster size to 16) with league approval in the event of a hardship.

Teams must suit-up at least eight players and have two players on its Inactive List for every game. The following table summarizes the allowable compositions of team Active and Inactive Lists:



A team gets two roster spots exclusively for Two-Way players (see question number 82). A Two-Way player must be on his team's Active List or Inactive List while playing in the NBA. For each Two-Way player on the team's Active List or Inactive List, the number of players required to be on the team's Inactive List increases by one, as indicated in the above chart. For example, if a team can have 13 active and two inactive players if it does not have any Two-Way players; 13 and three if it has one Two-Way player; or 13 and four if it has two Two-Way players.

The composition of the Inactive List can change on a game-by-game basis -- no less than 60 minutes prior to tipoff, the team must present to the official scorer a list of the players who will be active for that game. A player can be inactive for as little as one game. While individual teams are only required to carry a minimum of 14 players (13 active and one inactive, or 12 active and two inactive), the NBA also guarantees a league-wide average of at least 14.5 players per team (not including Two-Way players), however the average must be under 14.5 in two consecutive seasons for a violation to occur. If a violation occurs, then for the remaining seasons under the CBA the requirements for the number of players on teams' Inactive Lists increases by one.

For more, use the link.

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