Re: The Celtics 2022 Offseason Thread

[gyso]

Bob,

I was only asking, "Wait for someone better?"  because it was so early in the process and I hadn't seen any other names mentioned.

Okay, say we add him for a couple 2nd rounders, this is what we are working with, more or less in order.  I put Terrance Ross in as the first small forward off the bench.

Who else can we get that will push one of these players down the list?

6) Derrick White (PG/SG):



7) Grant Williams (PF):



8 ) Terrence Ross (SG/SF):



9) Payton Pritchard (SG):



10) Daniel Theis (C):



11) Aaron Nesmith (SF)

12) Sam Houser (SF)

[RosalieTCeltics]

Is there a feeling that something could come down sooner rather than later ? that exception $$ disappears in the beginning of July, am I right?

[112288]

We have until July 18th to make a move on the $17 million, then it expires.

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[bobheckler]

Rumor du Jour:

The Clippers are, allegedly, shopping Nicolas Batum.  The alleged suitors are the Lakers, the Bulls, the Suns, the Jazz and the Celtics.

Batum shot 40% from 3 last season.  He's 6'8", 33 1/2 years old.  His Offensive Rating last season was 118 and his Defensive Rating was 109, for a Net Rating of +9.  That's not bad.  A 109 Defensive Rating on a team that gave up 108.4ppg.  It's average for the #18 team, as far as MOV, in the league.  I'm sure the team's MOV, and the defenders on the Clips individually, would have been better if Kawhi played.  He missed the entire season with an ACL.  Batum is not the scorer he used to be, and that's our biggest need in my opinion.

He's under contract for one more year @ $8.856M.  The word out now is that he's opting out of his contract.  Wants a 2 year.


Bob


.

[112288]

OTHER OPTIONS

PAST EURO PICKS

In each of the last two drafts, the Celtics selected a draft-and-stash player with their second-round pick. In 2020, they selected guard Israel point guard Yam Madar (AGE 21) with the 47th overall pick and in 2021, then France shooting guard Juhann Begarin (AGE 19) with the 45th overall pick.

Both players played for the Celtics in the 2021 Summer League before heading back to their respective leagues in Europe for the following season. Madar scored 7.4 points per game with Partizan NIS of the ABA League while Begarin scored 11.1 points per game with Paris Basketball in LNB Pro A, which is the top professional basketball league in France.

Considering both players played in Summer League last season, Madar and Begarin could play for the Celtics’ Summer League squad again in July. But with Boston already having so many players under contract for next season, it might be tough for either player to earn a roster spot next season.

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[NYCelt]

I wish you would just tell us what you really think  

[dboss]

Here is my just say no list.

Duncan Robinson - too much money for a one trick pony

Marcus Morris - hell to the no

Batun -  nothing to see here  move along

Maybe guys

Powell, Ross (prefer Powell)

Isaac

Huerter

Reddish

[bobheckler]

Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 8 hours ago
Brad Stevens on the $17.1 million TPE that expires in a few weeks: If that thing vanquishes because we don't find the right deal, we still have two other TPEs that don't expire until the trade deadline.


Bob
MY NOTE:  Obviously he meant to write "vanishes" and not "vanquishes".  If Brad lets that TPE expire and not use it to even help other teams make deals and pick up assets in the process then he doesn't understand how this part of his job works.  You can pick up draft picks, even 2nd rounders have value, and/or players that can be rolled forward to someone else using the TPE.  $17.1M is too much money to allow to go to seed.  What's more, this $17.1M TPE was one he created, it's not Danny's.  Granted we were going to lose Fournier anyway, but we have the TPE now.  We shouldn't be looking at it as "who cares?"  I'm hoping Brad is just playing it cool here and he's not really this nonchalant.


.

[bobheckler]

Bob


.

[gyso]

Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 8 hours ago
Brad Stevens on the $17.1 million TPE that expires in a few weeks: If that thing vanquishes because we don't find the right deal, we still have two other TPEs that don't expire until the trade deadline.


Bob
MY NOTE:  Obviously he meant to write "vanishes" and not "vanquishes".  If Brad lets that TPE expire and not use it to even help other teams make deals and pick up assets in the process then he doesn't understand how this part of his job works.  You can pick up draft picks, even 2nd rounders have value, and/or players that can be rolled forward to someone else using the TPE.  $17.1M is too much money to allow to go to seed.  What's more, this $17.1M TPE was one he created, it's not Danny's.  Granted we were going to lose Fournier anyway, but we have the TPE now.  We shouldn't be looking at it as "who cares?"  I'm hoping Brad is just playing it cool here and he's not really this nonchalant.


.

I think he meant that he'd be vanquished if that TPE vanishes without being used.

That big TPE is the best way we have this summer to add the biggist fish to improve our bench. The quality drops off when considering who's available at those smaller TPEs.

[bobheckler]

Jared Weiss @JaredWeissNBA
about 8 hours ago
Brad Stevens on the $17.1 million TPE that expires in a few weeks: If that thing vanquishes because we don't find the right deal, we still have two other TPEs that don't expire until the trade deadline.


Bob
MY NOTE:  Obviously he meant to write "vanishes" and not "vanquishes".  If Brad lets that TPE expire and not use it to even help other teams make deals and pick up assets in the process then he doesn't understand how this part of his job works.  You can pick up draft picks, even 2nd rounders have value, and/or players that can be rolled forward to someone else using the TPE.  $17.1M is too much money to allow to go to seed.  What's more, this $17.1M TPE was one he created, it's not Danny's.  Granted we were going to lose Fournier anyway, but we have the TPE now.  We shouldn't be looking at it as "who cares?"  I'm hoping Brad is just playing it cool here and he's not really this nonchalant.


.

I think he meant that he'd be vanquished if that TPE vanishes without being used.  

That big TPE is the best way we have this summer to add the biggist fish to improve our bench.  The quality drops off when considering who's available at those smaller TPEs.

gyso,

"I think he meant that he'd be vanquished if that TPE vanishes without being used."  I'm getting dizzy just trying to follow that.

I'm thinking we're not adding any big fish this summer because we're not giving up any of our core and our non-core players are not going to move the needle as far as enticing GMs.  My one disclaimer might be if Bradley Beal demands a trade to Boston and Washington decides that means going into full-blown rebuild mode.  Then players with rookie contracts like Grant, Payton and Aaron might be interesting with a player like Theis helping with the $.  I am not hopeful that this will happen, but it's not complete crazy talk in my opinion.  

Here's my rationale:  Washington was 35-47 last year, finishing in 12th place in the East.  They finished 8 games behind Charlotte for the #10 Play-In spot.  Things change in the offseasons for teams, to be sure, but 8 games is a lot of distance to cover and that's just to make it to the play-in.  So going full-blown tank might not be out of the question, especially if Beal tells them he's leaving in a year anyway.  They drafted 10th yesterday.  35-47 earned them 10th.  If you want to move up in the rankings in a big way you need to draft no lower than top 5-6.  What quality free agent will sign with a team that isn't even in the play-in?  If Beal wants out they will lose his draw and full-blown rebuild might be their only option left.

If I am right then the TPE will be used to nibble around the edges, maybe bring in a bucket like 31 1/2 year old Terrence Ross (expiring $11.5M contract) or, if not that, facilitate other deals.  Maybe create a new TPE that buys Brad another year. A TPE that can be passed on to Washington to help make the deal work, like Brad did with NY and Fournier. Fournier was gone anyway, the TPE just greased the $.


Bob


.

[gyso]

Bob,

I include players like Terrence Ross to be the "big fish" I was alluding to. Merely adding to the bench in the biggest way.

I hope they don't go the Bradley Beal route (the REALLY BIG FISH). There is no need to rip and tear the roster apart to add him, IMO.

[112288]

The $17 million TPE is too large of an amount to let go. Besides if you are looking for a player with one specialty like shooting the 3 ball, that's is about the price for such a player. Los Angeles Clippers guard Luke Kennard fits the financing terms of the TPE perfectly.

However, with Irving now on the outs with Brooklyn and looking West at the Lakers as a landing spot, and Durant signing a 4 year extension, I see a real trade opportunity here to get him. He has relations with several Celtic players and with him onboard we can solve our front line scoring problems immediately. Look at the Celtics exploring a trade with Brooklyn for Brown and perhaps another player to even out cash component.

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[dboss]

There are a few guys out there that could top off our big TPE but we cannot make deals based on that.

I think Robinson is a perfect example.

The Celtics have a top of the line core in place.  I see no good reason to muck that up for the Bradley Beals of the world.

I think that we can add some middleclass salary veterans to the team and improve our depth.

We should also be able to get a vet minimum guy or 2 to jump on our express train.

[dboss]

The $17 million TPE is too large of an amount to let go.  Besides if you are looking for a player with one specialty like shooting the 3 ball, that's is about the price for such a player. Los Angeles Clippers guard Luke Kennard fits the financing terms of the TPE perfectly.

However, with Irving now on the outs with Brooklyn and looking West at the Lakers as a landing spot, and Durant signing a 4 year extension, I see a real trade opportunity here to get him.  He has relations with several Celtic players and with him onboard we can solve our front line scoring problems immediately.   Look at the Celtics exploring a trade with Brooklyn for Brown and perhaps another player to even out cash component.

112288

Luke makes $3 million below our big TPE. Clips could use another PG. But why would they want to part with a shooter like him?

I certainly would not be looking at the Celtics making a trade for KD. I did not realize we had an issue with our front line scoring. KD is a scorer from the outside. He is a frontline player as is JT when he swings over to PF. Getting KD and using Jaylen as the main piece is kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul because then you have an issue with your wing scoring which is already an issue.

KD will make $43 million next year. JB will be around $28 mill. I do not see how spending $15 million more will make us a better team. I do not think KD is worth $15 per year more than JB and we need to keep our high end SG/SF

How about the Celtics addressing their needs while keeping their young core in place?

I think that is the direction that they are going in.

[gyso]

There are a few guys out there that could top off our big TPE but we cannot make deals based on that.

I think Robinson is a perfect example.

The Celtics have a top of the line core in place.  I see no good reason to muck that up for the Bradley Beals of the world.

I think that we can add some middleclass salary veterans to the team and improve our depth.

We should also be able to get a vet minimum guy or 2 to jump on our express train.

^^^ This ^^^

[bobheckler]

https://sports.yahoo.com/ime-udoka-hints-celtics-offseason-160500481.html



Ime Udoka hints at Celtics' offseason plan by pointing out 'key' roster need

Darren Hartwell
Fri, June 24, 2022 at 9:05 AM·2 min read



Just because the Boston Celtics reached their first NBA Finals since 2010 doesn't mean they're content with their current roster.

Speaking with reporters earlier this week, Celtics president of basketball operations Brad Stevens identified bench scoring as a "short-term need" for Boston entering NBA free agency and trade season.

Head coach Ime Udoka is on the same page as his boss.

"For us, consistent scoring off the bench is a huge key," Udoka said in a press conference Friday morning. "... I think we have a lot of things covered, but you can always have additions with the trade exceptions we have. So, we'll take a look at a certain amount of names that are available possibly and see if we can fit anything in numbers-wise."


The Celtics have several traded player exceptions, or TPEs, that they can use to acquire talent without having to match salaries in a deal. Their biggest TPE ($17.1 million) would allow them to trade for a pretty big name, but it seems more likely that the C's target a veteran free agent who fits into the mid-level exception ($6.1 million for tax-paying teams) or deal for a veteran who fits into one of their smaller TPEs ($6.9 million or $5.9 million).

After watching his trio of young reserves -- 27-year-old Derrick White, 23-year-old Grant Williams and 24-year-old Payton Pritchard -- struggle in the 2022 NBA Finals, Udoka seems keen on adding a veteran scorer to his second unit.

"I think the thing that stood out a little bit in the Finals was our bench scoring; kind of solidifying that with veteran roles off the bench," Udoka said.

"We had some young guys who we really relied on -- Payton, Derrick, Grant -- and those guys drew tremendously throughout the year and we need to see more of that. But certain positions and roles need to be touched on, and we have a good amount of names that we're looking at. Hopefully some of those names work out for us."

Udoka also stressed the importance of internal development, and all three of those players flashed potential this postseason -- especially Williams, who scored 21 points in a Game 7 victory over the Milwaukee Bucks. But when your bench gets outscored 52-9 combined in Games 5 and 6 of the NBA Finals, you may want to consider adding players with more experience.

NBA free agency begins next Thursday, June 30, and don't be surprised if the Celtics have interest in veteran scorers making somewhere in the $5 million or $6 million range.


Bob
MY NOTE:  Terrence Ross is 31 1/2 years old, he'll be 32 during the next season.  Furthermore, he will be an expiring contract next year, which means the team is not committed to a multi-year salary cap hit.  The TPE will take care of his salary this year and next year is next year.  Jayson is 24 going on 25 and Jaylen is 25 going on 26.  Ross is a couple of years past being a long-term piece that will mesh with the Js over the next 4 years or so as they come into their prime (24 and 25 are NOT their prime!!).  Bench bucket?  Check.  Short-term need?  Check.  Affordable?  With the TPE, check.

Another name that got dropped is Luke Kennard of the Clippers.  Today is his 26th birthday (Happy Birthday!).  Slightly more expensive than Ross's $11.5M, Kennard is under contract through 2024-2025, with that last year being a Club Option.  At $14.7M/year for those last 2 years (the ones that would not be covered by the TPE) he's not that expensive.  He was the #1 3pt shooter in the league last year at 44.9%, and that on a very healthy 423 3pt ftas.  The rumors are that the Clips are shopping him due to the acquisition of Norman Powell, who will eat into Kennard's minutes.  He will NOT be as affordable as Ross if, for no other reason, he's >5 years younger.

I'd rather have Kennard than Ross but it all depends upon the price.



.

[gyso]

Is either of these guys (Luke Kennard or Terrence Ross) worth a first round pick?  

If the Celtics truly want to get the best guy and not get into a bidding war, that's what it may take.

Here's Luke's numbers:



Does he play defense?

[112288]

The $17 million TPE is too large of an amount to let go.  Besides if you are looking for a player with one specialty like shooting the 3 ball, that's is about the price for such a player. Los Angeles Clippers guard Luke Kennard fits the financing terms of the TPE perfectly.

However, with Irving now on the outs with Brooklyn and looking West at the Lakers as a landing spot, and Durant signing a 4 year extension, I see a real trade opportunity here to get him.  He has relations with several Celtic players and with him onboard we can solve our front line scoring problems immediately.   Look at the Celtics exploring a trade with Brooklyn for Brown and perhaps another player to even out cash component.

112288

Luke makes $3 million below our big TPE.  Clips could use another PG.  But why would they want to part with a shooter like him?

I certainly would not be looking at the Celtics making a trade for KD.  I did not realize we had an issue with our front line scoring.  KD is a scorer from the outside.  He is a frontline player as is JT when he swings over to PF.  Getting KD and using Jaylen as the main piece is kinda like robbing Peter to pay Paul because then you have an issue with your wing scoring which is already an issue.

KD will make $43 million next year.  JB will be around $28 mill. I do not see how spending $15 million more will make us a better team.  I do not think KD is worth $15 per year more than JB and we need to keep our high end SG/SF

How about the Celtics addressing their needs while keeping their young core in place?

I think that is the direction that they are going in.  

dBoss,

If you want a pure shooter Luke Kennard fits the bill. For draft choices or younger talent like Nesmith you got to go for a guy like that. You are never getting a pure dollar matchup for a player, and if he is a guy who fits the bill, you got to explore the deal.

And, ya we do have a front line scoring. Ya want to play the yo yo game with Tatum and his awful shooting percentage from 3 pt arc? He was below his career shooting from 3 at 35% this year. He has regressed the last 2 years and I saw enough of his play over the past 2 years to conclude he is not the guy I want shooting a 3 to win a big game. Durant is an overall better FG percentage shooter, averaging year after year of over 50%. In fact with him and Tatum playing together, Durant can help Tatum by not having double coverage.

Brown is a great player but not a Kevin Durant. He would make the Celtic offense that much better! Brown even has a better overall FG % than Tatum.

The Celtics starting offense needs a boost either getting a real point guard that can attack the paint or hit from 3 point arc. Smart as point guard is not a lock game in and game out for scoring 18-20 pts. The league knows by now the same old same old offense attack by Brown and Tatum and it was exploited in the finals!

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[112288]

Is either of these guys (Luke Kennard or Terrence Ross) worth a first round pick?  

If the Celtics truly want to get the best guy and not get into a bidding war, that's what it may take.

Here's Luke's numbers:



Does he play defense?

Luke is fair on defense, but with the Celtic with a strong defensive core, you can cover any liability defensively with such a unit in order to promote scoring. Besides, if he got a health dose of defense from IME, his defense would certainly go up several notches. The best way to crush a team making a comeback is to bury a few 3 pters that breaks the spirit of the other team. The Warriors certainly did that to the Celtics in the finals. They shut the door on our comebacks.

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[dboss]

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For the record, I think Luke would be an excellent addition to the team.

If I recall, he played with Tatum at Duke.

I am pretty happy with our starting 5 and see no good reason to change out a player especially Brown.

Brad has been adamant about adding new guys and how fragile that can be.  He does not want to screw up our chemistry.

I just do not see the Celtics going after Durant or any other star player while using a star player+ to acquire him.  I think that would be counter productive.

We are going to be fine.  Just add a couple of quality guys and depth issues goes away.

We should expect improvement from our pillars.  Neither has hit their ceiling.

[cowens/oldschool]

Here is my just say no list.

Duncan Robinson - too much money for a one trick pony

Marcus Morris - hell to the no

Batun -  nothing to see here  move along

Maybe guys

Powell, Ross (prefer Powell)

Isaac

Huerter

Reddish

Why do you not like Batum?

[dboss]

Here is my just say no list.

Duncan Robinson - too much money for a one trick pony

Marcus Morris - hell to the no

Batun -  nothing to see here  move along

Maybe guys

Powell, Ross (prefer Powell)

Isaac

Huerter

Reddish

Why do you not like Batum?

I have a lot of reasons.

He is an UFA which means we cannot use any of our TPE's to sign him. The clips have a CAP hold on him for a little over $4 million. We would have to use a portion of our Tax payer MLE to sign him unless he agreed to a veteran minimum deal.

He is a net negative on the court with an offensive rating of 105.4 and a defensive rating of 109.8. That makes him a -4.4 He is a nonathletic tweener.

I'll pass. We need upgrades.

[dboss]

I figured I would post the link to NBA.com for defensive ratings.  See Batum's numbers.  

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

[dboss]

Here are a few options for using our Tax payer MLE. no particular order here.

Malik Monk UFA $1.8 million
Bobby Portis has a PO, $4.4 million
Carmelo Anthony UFA $2.6 million
Bryn Forbes UFA $4.5 million
Wayne Ellington UFA$2.6 million
Otto Porter UFA $2.4 million
Mitchell Robinson UFA $1.6 million
Victor Olidipo UFA $2.4 million

The Celtics have a legit opportunity to do a little poaching.

Have at it folks.

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