Re: Odds and Ends

by **swish** Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:32 pm

Outside wrote:
swish wrote:outside

My list was based on frequency of 3pt shots vs total field goal attempts. (Career figures)

Bird - 0.10
Nowitzki - 0.20
Lewis - 0.37
Turkoglu - 0.36
Thomas - 0.33
Robinson - 0.21

Yeah, I get that. But the three-point shot was viewed as a poor percentage play in the 70's and 80's -- even Bird viewed it with disdain -- which lead to teams taking very few three-point attempts.

The fact that Dirk is tall and played in an era when three-point shooting was given increased emphasis is a happenstance more than a significant development. If Bird were playing today, he'd be shooting lots of threes, and he'd be shooting them well.

Bird was ahead of the time quite frequently and that included the art of shooting 3's. In 1985-86, 0.10 of Birds shots were from 3 point range vs a league average of 0.037. In 2015-16 its a league average of 0.281 and look at Curry's 3pt frequency - o.425

swish

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:13 pm

swish wrote:
Outside wrote:
swish wrote:outside

My list was based on frequency of 3pt shots vs total field goal attempts. (Career figures)

Bird - 0.10
Nowitzki - 0.20
Lewis - 0.37
Turkoglu - 0.36
Thomas - 0.33
Robinson - 0.21

Yeah, I get that. But the three-point shot was viewed as a poor percentage play in the 70's and 80's -- even Bird viewed it with disdain -- which lead to teams taking very few three-point attempts.

The fact that Dirk is tall and played in an era when three-point shooting was given increased emphasis is a happenstance more than a significant development. If Bird were playing today, he'd be shooting lots of threes, and he'd be shooting them well.

Bird was ahead of the time quite frequently and that included the art of shooting 3's. In 1985-86, 0.10 of Birds shots were from 3 point range vs a league average of 0.037. In 2015-16 its a league average of 0.281 and look at Curry's 3pt frequency - o.425

swish

Sam used to boast how his beloved 60's Celtics could play any style and attack in waves, etc, well the 86 Celtics also were built to play any style and had the shooters and passers to play with the elite of today. If Bird was committed to bombing away with the 3 ball, I have no doubt he could put up real breathtaking numbers. Besides mugging you inside both ends with the greatest frontline in history, they ran the fastbreak really well and the trailer always got a wide open look. Telling Bird, Wedman, Ainge and Sichting to work on more 3's and figure out a way to take more would have been no problem for that crew.

by **cowens/oldschool** Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:34 pm

Cavs are in big trouble, the Bulls, in the second game of a back to back, after losing to us last night, just beat them no problem in a game Derick Rose shot 5-21. Saw alot of holes in Cavs. There is a worse defender in the league than Roy Hibbert, his name is Kevin Love and in every big game I've ever seen, his shot is off and his offense does not compensate for his defensive liabilities. Lebron's outside shooting has been off all year, not good in this new era of the team that hits more 3's and at a better % usually wins. He looked like Marcus Smart and was bricking everything from outside tonite, he also is 31 and doesn't play with the abandon and energy of 3 or 4 years ago. The team doesn't play well together, they don't seem to be playing for each other. When they went small, Rose would just attack the lane and feed the ball for easy close range baskets. Love and Irving are supposed to be all stars, if they are/were, where is the ability to make them better that the rare handful of superstars have?

by **bobheckler** Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:38 pm

cowens/oldschool wrote:Cavs are in big trouble, the Bulls, in the second game of a back to back, after losing to us last night, just beat them no problem in a game Derick Rose shot 5-21. Saw alot of holes in Cavs. There is a worse defender in the league than Roy Hibbert, his name is Kevin Love and in every big game I've ever seen, his shot is off and his offense does not compensate for his defensive liabilities. Lebron's outside shooting has been off all year, not good in this new era of the team that hits more 3's and at a better % usually wins. He looked like Marcus Smart and was bricking everything from outside tonite, he also is 31 and doesn't play with the abandon and energy of 3 or 4 years ago. The team doesn't play well together, they don't seem to be playing for each other. When they went small, Rose would just attack the lane and feed the ball for easy close range baskets. Love and Irving are supposed to be all stars, if they are/were, where is the ability to make them better that the rare handful of superstars have?

I guess the problem in Cleveland wasn't Blatt anymore than the problem in Houston was McHale.

bob

.

by **swish** Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:56 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:
swish wrote:
Outside wrote:
swish wrote:outside

My list was based on frequency of 3pt shots vs total field goal attempts. (Career figures)

Bird - 0.10
Nowitzki - 0.20
Lewis - 0.37
Turkoglu - 0.36
Thomas - 0.33
Robinson - 0.21

Yeah, I get that. But the three-point shot was viewed as a poor percentage play in the 70's and 80's -- even Bird viewed it with disdain -- which lead to teams taking very few three-point attempts.

The fact that Dirk is tall and played in an era when three-point shooting was given increased emphasis is a happenstance more than a significant development. If Bird were playing today, he'd be shooting lots of threes, and he'd be shooting them well.

Bird was ahead of the time quite frequently and that included the art of shooting 3's. In 1985-86, 0.10 of Birds shots were from 3 point range vs a league average of 0.037. In 2015-16 its a league average of 0.281 and look at Curry's 3pt frequency - o.425

swish

Sam used to boast how his beloved 60's Celtics could play any style and attack in waves, etc, well the 86 Celtics also were built to play any style and had the shooters and passers to play with the elite of today. If Bird was committed to bombing away with the 3 ball, I have no doubt he could put up real breathtaking numbers. Besides mugging you inside both ends with the greatest frontline in history, they ran the fastbreak really well and the trailer always got a wide open look. Telling Bird, Wedman, Ainge and Sichting to work on more 3's and figure out a way to take more would have been no problem for that crew.

cowens

Below link has 4 Celts in the top 18 based on 3 point shooting percentages. Not too shabby.

http://bkref.com/tiny/xnune

swish

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:25 am

swish

You said Bird was ahead of his time, I would have to wholeheartedly agree, in his hey day, I used to marvel at the depth of his game, never saw a player that could do so many things so well, so complete. As a kid I loved all that Havlicek could do, then later Dr J and his acrobatic game were the rage. When Bird came in I was amazed at how much MORE he could do than Hondo and Dr J. He was the first stretch 4 as in his earlier years he played the PF position, he was also the first forward where the term point forward was used, as the offense always ran through him. His heroics in the clutch had never been done so many times over and over, until he came along. How many times did he rip 20 boards in a big playoff game? He had the post up game, he had the mid range game, he had the long ball, he could pass and create for others, it used to surprise me how well he ran the floor.....I'd say he was ahead of his time just alittle. I would say get him healthy, he could adapt his game and team to any situation.

cow

by **cowens/oldschool** Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:35 am

and he had toughness, an abundance of toughness

by **beat** Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:13 am

cowens/oldschool wrote:and he had toughness, an abundance of toughness

And he was ALL OURS !!

beat

by **swish** Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:47 am

beat wrote:
cowens/oldschool wrote:and he had toughness, an abundance of toughness

And he was ALL OURS !!

beat

Yep! A down on the farm country hick.

swish

by **bobheckler** Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:55 am

Sacto beat Indy last night. Boogie with 48 on 17-29. Would have had 50+ but he was 13-20 from the line. He's 74% for the season. If he isn't the Second Coming of Pol Pot, I want him. Damn. If the only way that can happen is by prying him out of Vlade Divac's cold dead fingers, well...

Here's Rondo telling Boogie to stand in a corner and guard nobody in Sacto's win over Atlanta. He knew they needed a 3. Look at the Cousins face as Rondo is telling him to go to the corner. Funny. He's, like, "WTF?" As Chuck of Redsarmy.com said about Rondo "he's an asshole, but the dude knows the game".

https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4-mobile/z9pz.mp4

bob

.

by **bobheckler** Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:53 pm

btw, Steph Curry hit TWO outrageous shots vs Indy two days ago. The first one didn't count because it was after the buzzer, but the 2nd one did. Count or not, they are just freaking unreal.

And so is he. If he can see it, he can hit it.

bob

.

by **bobheckler** Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:21 pm

Watching the Spurs-Cav game. Spurs look OLD. No foot speed to stop fast breaks. Strictly half court. Not keeping Love or Thompson off the boards neither.

bob

.

by **beat** Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:18 am

Warriors won in Philly last eve, yes it was Philly and it was in Philly but they only won by 3 and the fact they won while making only 1 foul shot was a bit amazing, ( they shot 2 ) Philly was 11-20 from the stripe and if they had shot only 75 % they could have won based on final score (who knows how things would have actually played out )

Usually teams will go thru a poor spell, Warriors may have that but still be able to find a way, but they may only be an injury away from coming back to the pack.....a little.

beat

by **dboss** Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:23 am

[quote="bobheckler"]Watching the Spurs-Cav game. Spurs look OLD. No foot speed to stop fast breaks. Strictly half court. Not keeping Love or Thompson off the boards neither.

bob

Bob

Yes they did look old and slow. The Cavs played with a lot more energy.

Dboss

by **dboss** Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:26 am

Also watch OK and LSU.

Buddy Heild is a really good shooter though somewhat undersize. I am adding him to my wish list of SG that could be available in the draft.

Dboss

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:52 pm

Indy just went up 4 vs Cavs and the guy whos taking it to Cavs is Myles Turner, he is protecting the rim, grabbing boards, hes doing alot of bigman things that don't even show up on the boxscore and this kid DEFENDS....Paul George is 2-11 from field.
This was my pick if we could have gotten to 10 last year, I thought he would be there and he was, but NO we had to go for a useless playoff run. He has a jumper that is just going to get better and better and kid is already causing havoc with his defense right now!!!

by **cowens/oldschool** Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:12 pm

Turner just blocked Lebron on a drive with his right hand fully extended for a dunk, that did NOT happen, you will see that on ESPN highlights. Turner with his first career double double....if I was GM we'd have gotten a damn big man, dats for sure !!!!!!

by **NYCelt** Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:58 pm

dboss wrote:Also watch OK and LSU.

Buddy Heild is a really good shooter though somewhat undersize. I am adding him to my wish list of SG that could be available in the draft.

Dboss

dboss,

Agreed.

I currently make the following the top 5 players expected to come out for the '16 draft, in order;

Simmons SF/PF LSU Fr.
Ingram SF Duke Fr.
Brown SG/SF Cal Fr.
Hield SG Oklahoma Sr.
Dunn, PG Providence Jr.

I also make that my top 5 wish list, in order. If we have a top 5 pick and walk away with one of these, I'm happy. Best odds presently would have to be Brown, Hield or Dunn.

Regards

by **dboss** Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:23 pm

If Danny can pull off deals to get both Howard and Gallinari would that be favorable?

Would that put the Celtics in contention to play for a Championship?

What would it take to get these deals done? Consider that it would probably require at least 2 of our top 7 players. and multiple draft picks.

dboss

by **dboss** Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:32 pm

It is almost time to start a Draft thread but like many of you I have been following potential players that may be a good fit for Boston.

I find Denzell Valentine as a very talented player.

As you know he is not projected to go in the top 10 but I think before the season is over he may rise.

This guy is averaging 19.9 ppp, 7.7 rebounds and 7.1 assists. He shoots .447% from behind the arc and .84% from the line. When I watched film on him the player that came to mind was Paul Pierce although Pierce is taller.

His ranking is hurt because they say he is not particularly athletic but if you watch him play he is one helluva basketball player and I think he would be an excellent addition to the Celtics.

So if boston does not hit the jackpot at 1 or 2 they could still move down and get a guy like Valentine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CutDzpGosho Game against kansas

We may not resign Turner and this kid Valentine can do everything that Turner can do plus he is a better long range shooter.

dboss

by **dboss** Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:36 pm

I also forgot to mention that he is a Senior. Shame on him he stayed in school for 4 years.

But NBA ready right now

dboss

by **dboss** Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:27 pm

Anybody out there want to see Mickey get some some minutes other than garbage time minutes?

I would love to see him get some rotation minutes so that we can really get a better feel for his abilities. The Celtics best 5 defenders are Smart, Bradley Crowder Johnson and Mickey. Mickey is not a 3 point shooter but can certainly make shots in the midrange area

I say give him 2 3 minute stints to see how he fits in. I think that he is going to be a great defender.

dboss

by **bobheckler** Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:41 pm

dboss wrote:Anybody out there want to see Mickey get some some minutes other than garbage time minutes?

I would love to see him get some rotation minutes so that we can really get a better feel for his abilities. The Celtics best 5 defenders are Smart, Bradley Crowder Johnson and Mickey. Mickey is not a 3 point shooter but can certainly make shots in the midrange area

I say give him 2 3 minute stints to see how he fits in. I think that he is going to be a great defender.

dboss

dboss,

Who do you take minutes away from to give to Mickey?

bob

.

by **beat** Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:59 pm

bobheckler wrote:
dboss wrote:Anybody out there want to see Mickey get some some minutes other than garbage time minutes?

I would love to see him get some rotation minutes so that we can really get a better feel for his abilities. The Celtics best 5 defenders are Smart, Bradley Crowder Johnson and Mickey. Mickey is not a 3 point shooter but can certainly make shots in the midrange area

I say give him 2 3 minute stints to see how he fits in. I think that he is going to be a great defender.

dboss

dboss,

Who do you take minutes away from to give to Mickey?

bob

.

Amir's ALL OF THEM

beat

by **beat** Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:44 pm

The Celtics have topped 121 points 3 times in Feb. after doing so just three times from Feb. 2011 to Jan. 2016.

beat

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