Should the Celtics look at Thon Maker?

Bone

My bad.  I apologize.

If Maker is drafted by Boston I will get you a pair of tickets to see him.  And you can choose the venue.  That is a promise.

Dboss

Gery Woelfel
‏@GeryWoelfel
A Western Conference scouting director said he believes Maker could now go anywhere between "late lottery to 18.''

dboss wrote:Bone

My bad.  I apologize.

If Maker is drafted by Boston I will get you a pair of tickets to see him.  And you can choose the venue.  That is a promise.

Dboss

California here I come, lol

Gery Woelfel ‏@GeryWoelfel 3h3 hours ago
Said an NBA official who watched Maker's recent workout in New York: "He shot the ball extremely well, especially from 3-point range.''

Gery Woelfel ‏@GeryWoelfel 3h3 hours ago
Here comes Thon Maker: Once regarded as an early 2nd-round pick, Maker has now solidified himself as a 1st-rounder after impressive workout.

That is between 16 and 23.  Which would mean Boston would miss out on him so would DA take him at 16?

We will find out in 3 weeks.

Dboss

I will pick up the game tickets.  

Dboss

arambone wrote:

dboss wrote:Bone

My bad.  I apologize.

If Maker is drafted by Boston I will get you a pair of tickets to see him.  And you can choose the venue.  That is a promise.

Dboss

California here I come, lol

Arambone,

If it's northern CA, I'm buying the drinks.


bob


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http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-draft-big-board-early-entry-deadline-shakes-up-latest-prospect-rankings/

Article says a bunch of potential second round picks have decided to return to school, weakening that part of the draft.  Says that will improve an already strong 2017 draft. Writer lists his Top 150 prospects in order.

Has Thon Maker rated 35th.  And I think we draft 35th.  If he's available at 23 and we don't use that pick to draft him, a lot of people here are going to have a heart attack.

And also predicts we trade the #3 pick straight up for Okafor:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft/expert/sam-vecenie

steve3344 wrote:http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-draft-big-board-early-entry-deadline-shakes-up-latest-prospect-rankings/

Article says a bunch of potential second round picks have decided to return to school, weakening that part of the draft.  Says that will improve an already strong 2017 draft. Writer lists his Top 150 prospects in order.

Has Thon Maker rated 35th.  And I think we draft 35th.  If he's available at 23 and we don't use that pick to draft him, a lot of people here are going to have a heart attack.

And also predicts we trade the #3 pick straight up for Okafor:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft/expert/sam-vecenie

That guy's closed-minded. I was talking to him on twitter and gave him links to one of my Thon Maker vids, and he said he's already seen Thon so he didn't need to watch them.

He really thinks that because he watched Thon over a year ago that he knows all there is to know about Thon's feel for the game and talent level.

bobheckler wrote:

arambone wrote:

dboss wrote:Bone

My bad.  I apologize.

If Maker is drafted by Boston I will get you a pair of tickets to see him.  And you can choose the venue.  That is a promise.

Dboss

California here I come, lol

Arambone,

If it's northern CA, I'm buying the drinks.


bob


.

Thanks. Now I just need Cowens to pick up the airfare ...

arambone wrote:

bobheckler wrote:

arambone wrote:

dboss wrote:Bone

My bad.  I apologize.

If Maker is drafted by Boston I will get you a pair of tickets to see him.  And you can choose the venue.  That is a promise.

Dboss

California here I come, lol

Arambone,

If it's northern CA, I'm buying the drinks.


bob


.

Thanks. Now I just need Cowens to pick up the airfare ...

arambone,

Yeah, keep me posted on that. LOL.


bob


.

arambone wrote:

bobheckler wrote:One thing I think we need to keep in mind with Thon Maker is that everything he has done, all the talent and skills he has displayed so far, have been against prep school kids.  Most of them won't even get into a serious NCAA Division 1 college basketball program, much less be a starter for said program, much less be considered for the NBA draft, much less be considered for the first round or lottery.  RJ Hunter looked awesome in summer league last year and every single one of those players were invited by NBA teams to compete.  Summer league competition is much inferior to NBA pro camp competition which is WAY inferior to regular season NBA competition, and Maker has yet to compete against even the lowest of those (except for the workout Danny and Brad just put him through, which was against likely low 2nd round or undrafted college players, and we don't know how well he did).  You've heard the expression "you're not even in their league"?  Well, Thon Maker is 2 leagues away from the one he wants to be drafted into next month and that's a big deal.

I will say one thing:  the complete news blackout of Thon Maker's workout with the Celtics is intriguing.  You're hearing some oohs and ahhhs from bloggers of other teams Maker has worked out for but nothing out of Danny etal.  Other players who worked out with Maker were interviewed by the press, comments were made (in general) about them, but not Maker.  Danny's lack of commentary often means something good.  When Danny's talking it's often a smoke screen.  He wouldn't give his mother the correct time of day unless she offered a 2nd rounder for it, otherwise he'd give her the wrong time just to throw her off the scent.  If he isn't talking about someone it's often because he's keeping something close to the breast.


bob



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Maker's played against most of the top prospects of this draft and next year's draft, and even Myles Turner from last year's draft. And he played alongside Jamal Murray, a top 5 pick in this draft.

Most of the teams he's played against for the last 3 years, at two different schools, were stocked with D1 players and a lot of future NBA players.

Not your average high school competition, by any means. The best of the best. These prep schools don't deal with kids who are not D1 prospects at the very least.

And in the summer he's been playing with and against the very best prospects in the country, much like in the winters.

any boxscore from the game against Turner? how did he do?

cowens/oldschool wrote:

arambone wrote:

bobheckler wrote:One thing I think we need to keep in mind with Thon Maker is that everything he has done, all the talent and skills he has displayed so far, have been against prep school kids.  Most of them won't even get into a serious NCAA Division 1 college basketball program, much less be a starter for said program, much less be considered for the NBA draft, much less be considered for the first round or lottery.  RJ Hunter looked awesome in summer league last year and every single one of those players were invited by NBA teams to compete.  Summer league competition is much inferior to NBA pro camp competition which is WAY inferior to regular season NBA competition, and Maker has yet to compete against even the lowest of those (except for the workout Danny and Brad just put him through, which was against likely low 2nd round or undrafted college players, and we don't know how well he did).  You've heard the expression "you're not even in their league"?  Well, Thon Maker is 2 leagues away from the one he wants to be drafted into next month and that's a big deal.

I will say one thing:  the complete news blackout of Thon Maker's workout with the Celtics is intriguing.  You're hearing some oohs and ahhhs from bloggers of other teams Maker has worked out for but nothing out of Danny etal.  Other players who worked out with Maker were interviewed by the press, comments were made (in general) about them, but not Maker.  Danny's lack of commentary often means something good.  When Danny's talking it's often a smoke screen.  He wouldn't give his mother the correct time of day unless she offered a 2nd rounder for it, otherwise he'd give her the wrong time just to throw her off the scent.  If he isn't talking about someone it's often because he's keeping something close to the breast.


bob



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Maker's played against most of the top prospects of this draft and next year's draft, and even Myles Turner from last year's draft. And he played alongside Jamal Murray, a top 5 pick in this draft.

Most of the teams he's played against for the last 3 years, at two different schools, were stocked with D1 players and a lot of future NBA players.

Not your average high school competition, by any means. The best of the best. These prep schools don't deal with kids who are not D1 prospects at the very least.

And in the summer he's been playing with and against the very best prospects in the country, much like in the winters.

any boxscore from the game against Turner? how did he do?

I don't know, but here's a highlight vid. It's old so not the most relevant video but still, shows he's been facing top competition for years:



And here's Thon Vs Skal a year ago. Thon would crush him now, and did later that summer

Obviously, none of this is real competitive play, but you can Maker's ball handling.






bob


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Now THIS should light up arambone's eyes (and maybe a few others too).

Here's Maker going up against Jaylen Brown, of Cal.  Brown is projected by draftexpress to go #3, by nbadraft.net #7, by mynbadraft.com #7, well, you get the idea.  He's a high lottery pick.  He's a SF, so not a direct man-to-man matchup like we had against Skal Labissiere but still...

No real NBA center sized guy defending him.

(Cue the drool reflex in Cowens...)









bob


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bobheckler wrote:Now THIS should light up arambone's eyes (and maybe a few others too).

Here's Maker going up against Jaylen Brown, of Cal.  Brown is projected by draftexpress to go #3, by nbadraft.net #7, by mynbadraft.com #7, well, you get the idea.  He's a high lottery pick.  He's a SF, so not a direct man-to-man matchup like we had against Skal Labissiere but still...

No real NBA center sized guy defending him.

(Cue the drool reflex in Cowens...)









bob


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And keep in mind that Maker Vs Brown video was at least 2 years ago.


I don't think I've ever seen a prospect so talented and so well known be slept on so heavily. Like, Porzingis may have been rated in the "second tier" of last year's draft, and Myles Turner may have been rated outside the top 10, and Greek Freak may have been rated just outside the lottery, but people are just NOW starting to talk about Maker as a pick in the teens, and it's practically June already.

And when the "experts" talk about international prospects, they don't even mention Maker.


If we here at Sam's Celts forum were to draw up our dream prospect, we'd probably stop short of describing Thon Maker because it would be too unrealistic.

After the big Nets trade, somebody even started a thread on Celticsblog dreaming about how we might have a chance to draft Thon Maker in 2017 with the #1 pick courtesy of the Nets.

Now we have a chance to actually get him, but I'm not sure if he's even on Danny's short list of players to consider at #3.

Finding a way to trade down a couple spots from 3 and draft Poeltl AND Maker would be one of the best Celtics drafts ever.

He definitely has alot of mobility and a nice stroke, his post defense needs alot of work, in the clips I just saw he barely jumped while Turner was shooting a turnaround in his face, you would think a kid with such a great vertical would challenge the shot better. He obviously needs more strength and weight, but I like him on film better than Bender.

cowens/oldschool wrote:He definitely has alot of mobility and a nice stroke, his post defense needs alot of work, in the clips I just saw he barely jumped while Turner was shooting a turnaround in his face, you would think a kid with such a great vertical would challenge the shot better. He obviously needs more strength and weight, but I like him on film better than Bender.

I'm really excited to see if he can get any minutes at SF, on whatever team drafts him.

Thon Maker Part 7: Dribble Drives

arambone wrote:Thon Maker Part 7: Dribble Drives

arambone,


A couple of things jumped out at me from this video:

1.  He's a very good dribbler but too cute by half.  That might just be youth, but he will have a lot more trouble doing that stuff in the NBA.

2.  He dribbles way too much.  Once again, that might just be youth.  Furthermore, it's a Dribble Drive video, so you probably selected possessions where he is overdribbling to highlight your point.

3.  He has serious strength issues.  He was playing against guys MUCH lighter and weaker than the ones he'll be playing against in the NBA and there were numerous possessions where he struggled with contact.  He was fouled but couldn't get the ball up past his shoulders.  He dribbled into trouble and got bailed out (once again, maybe a "youth" thing).  He was fouled and was able to get the ball up over his head but still couldn't finish despite being at the rim.

Bottom line, this video reinforces what I've seen and what I've read about him.  He is smooth, he has skills and he is still quite raw and physically understrength.  "Project" might be a good word to describe him.  Those are the same words that were used to describe Fab Melo (the kiss of death!) but I think Maker has far, far more promise than Melo.  Maker is a project that has a high degree of being successfully completed. He needs more time do develop his basketball AND he needs to be on a strict diet and exercise regimen.  He will be taller than just about every SF out there but there isn't one SF in the league today that couldn't out-muscle him and, because they are much shorter than him, if he puts the ball out in front of him and tries to fancy dribble past them, they will steal it from him.  Could you imagine if he tried that with Bradley or Smart or even Turner?  Wouldn't work.  If he was coming down court and had a head of steam up, sure, maybe, but in the half court, on top one-on-one like the video shows?  Hmmm...

He's like the Freak was when he came in, except I think that Maker might be a better jump shooter and the Freak was stronger.  Maker does not look strong at all.  I have to say, for all his skills, he did not handle contact well.  It threw him off and disrupted him every time.  He needs another 25-30 # of muscle if he is going to survive in the NBA at any position.

Helluva full court threat.  I wish I knew about his BB IQ.  In Bender's case, we know he's going against some serious professional talent, talent which is 7-10 years older than him.  One game against Skal Labissiere isn't much.


bob


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Bob, thanks for watching the video. Of course Maker would struggle to dribble-drive against NBA SFs. That's what his jump shot is for.

For a team that has struggled to create good looks offensively, having a 7'1 athlete with small forward skills would be a great thing. He can either shoot over or drive by 99% of players in the NBA.

You can be sure that guys will be fouling him and hanging off his arms before he gets the ball over his shoulders in the NBA as well. Nothing wrong with living at the FT line, where Maker already shoots 79% on high volume.


Maker's 9'3 standing reach is 5" higher than the average NBA PF. At SF, it's 8" higher.

Recall that the only SF Marcus Smart has struggled to guard was Kevin Durant, because Durant could just shoot over Smart.

Maker isn't the shooter that Durant is, but I bet he's better than Crowder or Turner or Smart or Sully or Amir, or most guys who take a lot of shots on the Celtics.

He's probably going to be good enough to steal Crowder's job at SF, or just start next to him at PF within a year or two. With long-term potential at center as well.

Chris Bosh is a perennial all star, he cannot drive by or shot over 99% of the players in the NBA.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Chris Bosh is a perennial all star, he cannot drive by or shot over 99% of the players in the NBA.

Bosh is 6'11, Maker is 7'1 and possibly still growing. And Bosh never had ball handling skills this good.

But in Toronto Bosh was still pretty lethal as a face-up PF and #1 scoring option.

BobH wrote:In Bender's case, we know he's going against some serious professional talent, talent which is 7-10 years older than him.

Bob, like I tried to say earlier, Maker has regularly been playing against top 10 picks and future NBA all stars for 4 years now. The best talent Bender faces are former NBA players who couldn't cut it.

cowens/oldschool wrote:Chris Bosh is a perennial all star, he cannot drive by or shot over 99% of the players in the NBA.

Cow,

Bosh isn't a SF neither.  He doesn't try to dribble past anybody.  He is one of those finesse players you love so much (sarcasm).  He is also 20# heavier than Maker and 2" shorter.  7'1", 215# is 1x12 thin.  I'm not dissing his skill, I'm questioning his ability to physically compete at the NBA level for anywhere near 82 games with the body he currently has.  He needs to go on a SEE-food diet and live in the weight room.  He is only 20-25# heavier AND 7" TALLER than RJ Hunter and we know he is emaciated for an NBAer.  Hell, Smart is 10# heavier and 9" shorter.

You think Kelly is soft at 7', 240#?  Wait'll you see this kid fly off the court the first time a 245# lower-center-of-gravity PF puts a hip on him and moves him out of position on a rebound.

Answer me this:  if you had to choose between Maker or Hammons, who would you pick?


bob


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