Should the Celtics look at Thon Maker?

bob if I want a center I would go with Hammons, if I want a PF I would go with Maker, I don't think he's a SF.

cowens/oldschool wrote:bob if I want a center I would go with Hammons, if I want a PF I would go with Maker, I don't think he's a SF.

Cow,

At 215# the"P" in PF would have to stand for 'Puny'.


bob


.

How many 7'1" SF's are out there? I don't think hes quite the Magic Johnson of SF's. The puny guy better put on weight, no wonder Myles Turner was posting him up with ease....maybe we shouldn't draft him? if hes another KO I'd say pass.

cowens/oldschool wrote:How many 7'1" SF's are out there? I don't think hes quite the Magic Johnson of SF's. The puny guy better put on weight, no wonder Myles Turner was posting him up with ease....maybe we shouldn't draft him? if hes another KO I'd say pass.

KO would be a great SF if he were an elite athlete.

Maker weighed 225 just two months ago, so I know he can at least put that much on in short order. The big question is how much more weight than that can he actually put on. And I think the answer might be discouraging, especially considering that he dropped 10 lbs while preparing for the Combine.

Just keep in mind that he's even more athletic now than he is in these videos of his games. He's at his athletic peak, which might be lower than his athletic peak next year and in 3 years.

Recall that Greek Freak and Durant both continued to get more athletic after they entered the NBA.

Maker broke records with his vert leap at the Combine. That's real sh$t.

after seeing Klay Thompson put on a ridiculous display to win game 6, at 3 we gotta go with Buddy Hield, Maker is a development project right now at 215 and Marcus Smart is 225 and even KO is 240.....we don't need another KO.

cowens/oldschool wrote:after seeing Klay Thompson put on a ridiculous display to win game 6, at 3 we gotta go with Buddy Hield, Maker is a development project right now at 215 and Marcus Smart is 225 and even KO is 240.....we don't need another KO.

Cow,

No way Maker is going #3.  #3 comes down to Bender or Hield or Murray or Brown or maybe Dunn, depending upon team needs.  The only person who has said Maker is even a lottery pick, much less a top 3 pick, is arambone.  The kid is opening eyes but I do not see any GM rolling the dice on him that high up.


bob

.

bob my thinking is Hield is a more accomplished college player than Thompson was, so if he has the ability to work and improve further like Thompson did as a pro, then with 3 point shooting being a premium in todays game.....we need more/better 3 point shooting.

Hield or Murray would be great choices. So would Kris Dunn, Jakob Poeltl, Thon Maker, and Jaylen Brown.

It's a deeper draft than I previously thought. We're going to walk away with 3-4 impact rookies. Maybe even 5 or 6, legitimately possible.

I won't get into why Dunn would be a good pick, but it involves Smart playing SF.

arambone wrote:Hield or Murray would be great choices. So would Kris Dunn, Jakob Poeltl, Thon Maker, and Jaylen Brown.

It's a deeper draft than I previously thought. We're going to walk away with 3-4 impact rookies. Maybe even 5 or 6, legitimately possible.

I won't get into why Dunn would be a good pick, but it involves Smart playing SF.

SF's need to be able to shoot.

steve3344 wrote:

arambone wrote:Hield or Murray would be great choices. So would Kris Dunn, Jakob Poeltl, Thon Maker, and Jaylen Brown.

It's a deeper draft than I previously thought. We're going to walk away with 3-4 impact rookies. Maybe even 5 or 6, legitimately possible.

I won't get into why Dunn would be a good pick, but it involves Smart playing SF.

SF's need to be able to shoot.

I think Smart will shoot closer to his rookie year 34% with a healthy offseason and better shot selection. Last summer he couldn't practice shooting at all with that dislocated finger.

He'll avg more than 34% on 3's next year, with his defense thats a serious force.

I'm hearing rumors about Jaylen Brown at 3. At the Combine Stevens told the young Berkley intellectual that he'd love Boston the city, and the team culture.

And one other rumor that Cs are high on him at #3.

I'm fine with that. He's an underrated shooter and shot 34% from 3 in conference play, and he'd immediately be the best athlete on the team, or at least tied with Rozier.

I like him, seen alot of clips, hes so raw, but with the right coaching and work ethic, he could be very Kawhi like, then we can get a big in the later rounds....was he in for a workout?

cowens/oldschool wrote:after seeing Klay Thompson put on a ridiculous display to win game 6, at 3 we gotta go with Buddy Hield, Maker is a development project right now at 215 and Marcus Smart is 225 and even KO is 240.....we don't need another KO.

Cow,

Yeah, that was a ridiculous display of shooting by Thompson, wasn't it?  11-18 from 3.  Wow.

Maker has the highest recorded max leap in Combine history but that's because he's only lifting 215#.  Put another 30 on him and that number will go down, just as it does with every bigger athlete.  Still, if it's good weight, good muscle, he could still remain super springy but not that!  Can't teach 7'1" though.

He is a project, I absolutely agree.  That doesn't mean he isn't worth a pick, the question is "which one?".  Personally, and this is just me, I'd trade down to 19 or so, I think Danny's old friend in Indiana has #19, and I'd package #16 and #23 for this year's #19 and Indy's next year's first round pick, which should probably still be in the 18-22 range.  That way we don't have 3 rookies on this year's roster in addition to the three we had last year.  Add in Smart with 2 years of experience and the useless James Young and we'd have 8 players with minimal NBA experience out of 15.  WAY too young.  As it is, let's face it, Thon Maker is going to be spending a lot of time in Maine anyway.  There's a difference between playing pick up games against quality college players and the complexity of NBA defenses and the intellectual speed of the offensive players that is required to defeat those defenses.  Maker doesn't deserve, nor do I think he is ready, to be thrown to the wolves right away.

As far as not needing another KO, I am going to address that a little differently.  I'm going to address that similar to how you addressed my question "who would you pick, Maker or Hammons?".  You pointed out they would play different positions.  Well, the same is true with Maker and KO.  KO is a modern stretch 4/5.  Maker is a 3/4.  That's better for Maker since he won't be expected to muscle it up with NBA behemoths like KO is sometimes called upon to do.  One of Maker's problems, and this is correctable, is that I don't know if he has the range today's 3s need on his shot.  Practice will fix that, but that's part of the "project".  He also appears to have serious strength issues.  Watch arambone's videos of him, if you haven't already.  He is silky smooth with the dribble full court, a little selfish with his dribbling in the half court (perhaps just youthfulness and showing off, also curable) but is easily stopped by almost any contact.  As arambone mentioned Maker LOST 10 pounds in the month between the end of his season and the NBA Combine.  He needs to put those 10# back on just to get back up to a still puny 7'1" 225# and then put on at least another 10# after that just to play 3 and another 10-15# yet again to play PF.  That cannot happen in a year or two without significant performance sacrifices. So, he really is probably 3 years out from a purely physical requirements perspective.

Another prospect people are doing some oohing and ahhing over over is Zhou Qi of China.  He has the same body.  His English is much worse, so it's not a direct 1:1 comparison, but what position does he play?  It's all fine and good to have the skill sets of a guard at 7' but it's not ok to have a guard's weight and strength at 7'.

Maker is very intriguing and I'm willing to take a flyer on him with a lower pick, assuming we don't draft Bender.  I don't think we need both unless Danny is moving KO.  Bender may or may not have the same upside as Maker but he is further along in his development and plays, and has played, against grown men (not boys) for a couple of years now.  Is he worth the #3, like he's projected?  Hard for me to say without seeing more game film, but he's worth more than Maker right now.  The difference is that Bender will not be there at #16.  I doubt he makes it past 5 or 6 at the lowest.  A lot of posters on this board think that's just fine with them, let him drop, but my point is that his perceived value by NBA scouts and GMs is MUCH higher than Makers, so a "steal" might be possible on Maker in the high teens/low 20s.



bob



.

bob yep that was some display by Thompson, Hield is a sure thing at where we are weakest and the game is already in this direction and looks like its here to stay for awhile. I like that I've seen him score in alot of ways besides the 3, you still need elements of the old school, but we can address that later in the draft.

BobH wrote:He needs to put those 10# back on just to get back up to a still puny 7'1" 225# and then put on at least another 10# after that just to play 3 and another 10-15# yet again to play PF.

Bob, keep in mind that possible #1 pick Brandon Ingram weighs 195-200 lbs, and he's a SF. Andrew Wiggins only weighs 200 lbs too.

215-225 lbs is plenty strong enough for SF if a player has crazy length and good/great athleticism.

At PF, Nerlens Noel weighed 206 when drafted, and now weighs 225. Brandon Wright weighs less than 220. John Henson weighs 220-225.

Chris Bosh and Larry Sanders played center at 230 lbs and did very well overall. Anthony Davis weighed 222 lbs at his NBA Combine.

Maker being taller than all those guys means he'll probably get out-leveraged a little more, but toughness is more important than a few pounds here or there at PF. But being 3", 4", or 5" taller than PFs, and even more height advantage against SFs, should make up for the weight disadvantage.

There will still be times he gets outmuscled, but the good definitely outweighs the bad.

As far as SF, LeBron and Carmelo are both over 30 now, and the days of the bully 260 lb small forward appear to be almost over.

Celtics haven't had a guy who can reach 12' off the ground since KG in 2008, and even then he might not have had the athleticism left to get up that high. The difference between Thon and Olynyk is Thon can grab rebounds and block shots and tip balls and shoot shots about 9"-12" higher in the air than Olynyk. Bender is more like Olynyk, vertically, with his 24" standing vert leaping.

Maker Vs Simmons extended highlights, from a couple years ago when Maker was arguably the higher ranked prospect

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/nbpa-maker-vs-simmons-204700289.html

arambone wrote:Maker Vs Simmons extended highlights, from a couple years ago when Maker was arguably the higher ranked prospect

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/nbpa-maker-vs-simmons-204700289.html

arambone,

Thanks,

Nice clips of the two of them playing against each other (but not matched up).  I thought Simmons outplayed Maker, overall, but Maker showed well.  Simmons is a point forward, VERY smooth and has EXCELLENT court vision.  Maker isn't bad either, but Simmons is really special in these respects.  What bothers me in these highlight videos, in general, is that you rarely see defensive plays.  They had a few by Maker, which is VERY encouraging considering and none by Simmons.  I hate these baggy shorts, I can't see how big their thighs and lower body are and undersized/muscled thighs are minute limiters.

I'm on board with Maker, I think the difference between you and me is WHERE he will get picked.  You see him as a lottery, maybe even HIGH lottery, pick and I have not seen any mock drafts, other than yours, that suggest he is going to be a lottery pick.


Give me Bender @ 3 (I'm counting on Danny and Austin's judgment on this) and a shooter like Korkmaz @ 16 OR give me Hield at 3 and Maker with 16 and I'm happy either way.

Oh, and AJ Hammons @ 31 to make Cowens happy too.


bob


.

Do the guys that make up all these mocks have real inside sources? or are they just guys good at talking shop and finding video?

bobheckler wrote:

arambone wrote:Maker Vs Simmons extended highlights, from a couple years ago when Maker was arguably the higher ranked prospect

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/nbpa-maker-vs-simmons-204700289.html

arambone,

Thanks,

Nice clips of the two of them playing against each other (but not matched up).  I thought Simmons outplayed Maker, overall, but Maker showed well.  Simmons is a point forward, VERY smooth and has EXCELLENT court vision.  Maker isn't bad either, but Simmons is really special in these respects.  What bothers me in these highlight videos, in general, is that you rarely see defensive plays.  They had a few by Maker, which is VERY encouraging considering and none by Simmons.  I hate these baggy shorts, I can't see how big their thighs and lower body are and undersized/muscled thighs are minute limiters.

I'm on board with Maker, I think the difference between you and me is WHERE he will get picked.  You see him as a lottery, maybe even HIGH lottery, pick and I have not seen any mock drafts, other than yours, that suggest he is going to be a lottery pick.


Give me Bender @ 3 (I'm counting on Danny and Austin's judgment on this) and a shooter like Korkmaz @ 16 OR give me Hield at 3 and Maker with 16 and I'm happy either way.

Oh, and AJ Hammons @ 31 to make Cowens happy too.


bob


.

Hield/Maker/Hammons would be a great draft

bone you've seen Hammons?

cowens/oldschool wrote:bone you've seen Hammons?

Just a little, but enough. Seems to have the same work ethic/attitude that Sully has, but he can probably bring a similar overall impact for 20mpg.

arambone wrote:

cowens/oldschool wrote:bone you've seen Hammons?

Just a little, but enough. Seems to have the same work ethic/attitude that Sully has, but he can probably bring a similar overall impact for 20mpg.

I don't know if Sully is a good comparison, Sully is fat, this kid got thinner every year. He is Ezeli with a mid range jumper, doesn't have the greatest motor, but a legit rim protector and 5.

I'm on board with Hield at 3 and Maker at 16. 23 have no clue. Danny will probably go with Bender though, unless he can fake LA into taking Bender; then we'll get Ingram. Still like Hield the most. What a shooter.