Should the Celtics look at Thon Maker?

Hoping Maker falls to 16 or 23 is the makings of a Midsummer's Nightmare

Thon Maker Part 4: Vs Huntington Prep Jan. 9 2016

arambone wrote:Hoping Maker falls to 16 or 23 is the makings of a Midsummer's Nightmare

Thon Maker Part 4: Vs Huntington Prep Jan. 9 2016

arambone,

Thanks for the video.  Here are my opinions, after watching it all (these are JUST my opinions, others may disagree):

1.  He is an exceptional ball handler for a big.
2.  He has a smooth stroke with nice mechanics and motion.
3.  His shot discipline sucks.
4.  He is a weak finisher around the rim, even though he was an entire head taller than everybody else.
5.  He is an exceptional passer in the high and low post and also on the run.
6.  His footwork on defense was suspect.  He repeatedly put himself at a disadvantage against players blowing past him.
7.  He can hit, at the minimum, KG's shot from outside, possibly NBA 3pters.  He can also hit baseline jumpers.
8.  He's a worker.  When he missed a shot he went right back up for the rebound.  That might not be so easy in the NBA, but it shows some heart.

Nobody tried to post him up, understandably, so we didn't get to see that part of his defensive game.  He WILL get posted up in the NBA.  He's a toothpick and will get backed down underneath the basket if he lets them.

Keep posting more of these and we'll see a broader picture of him.  One game does not a season, nor career, make.


bob

.

bobheckler wrote:

arambone wrote:Hoping Maker falls to 16 or 23 is the makings of a Midsummer's Nightmare

Thon Maker Part 4: Vs Huntington Prep Jan. 9 2016

arambone,

Thanks for the video.  Here are my opinions, after watching it all (these are JUST my opinions, others may disagree):

1.  He is an exceptional ball handler for a big.
2.  He has a smooth stroke with nice mechanics and motion.
3.  His shot discipline sucks.
4.  He is a weak finisher around the rim, even though he was an entire head taller than everybody else.
5.  He is an exceptional passer in the high and low post and also on the run.
6.  His footwork on defense was suspect.  He repeatedly put himself at a disadvantage against players blowing past him.
7.  He can hit, at the minimum, KG's shot from outside, possibly NBA 3pters.  He can also hit baseline jumpers.
8.  He's a worker.  When he missed a shot he went right back up for the rebound.  That might not be so easy in the NBA, but it shows some heart.

Nobody tried to post him up, understandably, so we didn't get to see that part of his defensive game.  He WILL get posted up in the NBA.  He's a toothpick and will get backed down underneath the basket if he lets them.

Keep posting more of these and we'll see a broader picture of him.  One game does not a season, nor career, make.


bob

.

Thanks, this is the third game of extended Thon highlights I've posted here. Here's the other two again:

His ball handling is smooth in the open court. And he always has his eyes up as soon as he gets the defensive rebound. If the home run pass isn't there, he can take the ball up in a burst and usually get a good shot for his team before the defense sets.

He's not Ben Simmons, but he's not far off as a transition nightmare. And of course Maker can actually pull up for the 3 point shot unlike Ben.

Being so tall and long also helps Thon's passing a great deal. Just like a tall quarterback, being super tall and long in basketball opens up all kinds of passes that simply wouldn't be there for shorter players. And Thon's actually smart and savvy enough to exploit these opportunities.

And being that tall and long works for catching passes as well, just like a super tall wide receiver makes an easier target.


I'm convinced that Thon can play SF in the NBA, and then play PF in "small" lineups.

But as his assistant coach told me, there would be an adjustment period learning how to deal with the quickness of NBA SFs.

bobheckler wrote:

arambone wrote:Hoping Maker falls to 16 or 23 is the makings of a Midsummer's Nightmare

Thon Maker Part 4: Vs Huntington Prep Jan. 9 2016

arambone,

Thanks for the video.  Here are my opinions, after watching it all (these are JUST my opinions, others may disagree):

1.  He is an exceptional ball handler for a big.
2.  He has a smooth stroke with nice mechanics and motion.
3.  His shot discipline sucks.
4.  He is a weak finisher around the rim, even though he was an entire head taller than everybody else.
5.  He is an exceptional passer in the high and low post and also on the run.
6.  His footwork on defense was suspect.  He repeatedly put himself at a disadvantage against players blowing past him.
7.  He can hit, at the minimum, KG's shot from outside, possibly NBA 3pters.  He can also hit baseline jumpers.
8.  He's a worker.  When he missed a shot he went right back up for the rebound.  That might not be so easy in the NBA, but it shows some heart.

Nobody tried to post him up, understandably, so we didn't get to see that part of his defensive game.  He WILL get posted up in the NBA.  He's a toothpick and will get backed down underneath the basket if he lets them.

Keep posting more of these and we'll see a broader picture of him.  One game does not a season, nor career, make.


bob

.

One of the most rewarding parts of making these videos of extended highlights and lowlights is getting people's analysis like you've done here.

If I make enough of these videos, the public and the experts alike will have no excuse to recite outdated scouting reports based on year old footage, and most people will generally be on the same page regarding his strengths and weaknesses.

Sometimes a "polarizing" prospect just means somebody who nobody has seen much recent tape on, like Bender.

arambone wrote:Hoping Maker falls to 16 or 23 is the makings of a Midsummer's Nightmare

Thon Maker Part 4: Vs Huntington Prep Jan. 9 2016

Unless things really change, Ainge would be crucified for taking him at #3. What can Danny do? He could trade down a few (or even several) spots, still take maker, and possibly pick up another future pick/asset.

Thon Maker Part 5: Vs Josh Jackson + Prolific Prep 12/29/15

This one is short, 1:35.

Thon Maker Part 6: Shooting Range/Kill Zones

For the Jazz, Maker shot the ball well, and showed off his offensive skills. He proved he could guard on the perimeter, but will clearly need time to gain the strength needed to hold his own in the post.

But Maker is a confident kid who has goals for himself. While people were dubbing him the next Durant, he instead patterned his game after Kevin Garnett, minus the trash-talking. And while he is currently one of the biggest wildcards in the draft, Maker's workouts are about introducing himself on and off the floor at a personal level.

"I thought he played pretty well," Jazz VP of player personnel Walt Perrin said. "Considering he had a pro day yesterday, I was worried about him. But he was in good shape, he shot the ball well and he got through it. It was impressive that he was in shape. He's gotten bigger and he's figuring out how to play."

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/3933272-155/utah-jazz-thon-maker-looks-to

There is always more risk involved when you draft a 18 or 19 year old kid.

But the rewards can be great. Every year some player slips into the 2nd round and a few years later fans want to know how their team missed out on getting him.

The worse thing however is to draft a kid too high up on the board and then he flops.

I think Maker could be drafted somewhere in between 16 and 23. As we get closer to the draft there will be a lot of information and mis-information leaking out about a lot of players. He will work out for at least 10 teams.

I saw the combine interview and thought that he was a pretty level headed kid.

A 7 footer is always in demand that is why the Celtics drafted Melo in the 1st round. Melo lacked a lot of basketball skills. Maker may turn out to be a bust but it will not be because he lacks basketball skills.

dboss

dboss wrote:There is always more risk involved when you draft a 18 or 19 year old kid.

But the rewards can be great.  Every year some player slips into the 2nd round and a few years later fans want to know how their team missed out on getting him.

The worse thing however is to draft a kid too high up on the board and then he flops.

I think Maker could be drafted somewhere in between 16 and 23.  As we get closer to the draft there will be a lot of information and mis-information leaking out about a lot of players.  He will work out for at least 10 teams.  

I saw the combine interview and thought that he was a pretty level headed kid.  

A 7 footer is always in demand that is why the Celtics drafted Melo in the 1st round.  Melo lacked a lot of basketball skills.  Maker may turn out to be a bust but it will not be because he lacks basketball skills.  

dboss

I also got the impression he is level headed, and that he will work hard and study the game. Also hope that he doesn't go too high - not just so the C's can snag him at 16 or 23, but also, as you point out, inflated expectations can ruin a young player.

This mock draft has the Spurs getting Thon Maker at 29:

http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-bulls/2016-nba-mock-draft-mark-schanowski-makes-his-picks?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

That would be aggravating. And you know they would develop him into being a big-time player.

Maker just worked out for a ton of NBA teams & was impressive. Still too early to tell.

- @chadfordinsider

Too early to tell if the workout moved Thon up from Chad Ford's #24 or something.

https://twitter.com/ESPNInsider/status/736244596301258752

draft express finally moved Maker up from 40, to 32.

arambone wrote:draft express finally moved Maker up from 40, to 32.

let's hope he doesn't move up further, so we can get him at 23 or 16....

Shamrock1000 wrote:

arambone wrote:draft express finally moved Maker up from 40, to 32.

let's hope he doesn't move up further, so we can get him at 23 or 16....

23 was never going to happen, and 16 was always pushing it.

He's a top 5 talent in this draft, and most any draft.

arambone wrote:

Shamrock1000 wrote:

arambone wrote:draft express finally moved Maker up from 40, to 32.

let's hope he doesn't move up further, so we can get him at 23 or 16....

23 was never going to happen, and 16 was always pushing it.

He's a top 5 talent in this draft, and most any draft.

That's what worries me - him moving up... Regardless of whether or not he deserves to, I don't agree he will go top 5 - for reasons you have explained, he is somewhat undervalued. But what if he does move up beyond 16? How can the Celtics still get him? Based on last year's experience with DA and Justise Winslow, I don't feel confident we can package our non-brooklyn picks to move up. We could trade down from number 3, possibly for a lower lottery pick and a future first rounder, a-la Belichik, but that might be tough for the fan base to swallow...

One thing I think we need to keep in mind with Thon Maker is that everything he has done, all the talent and skills he has displayed so far, have been against prep school kids.  Most of them won't even get into a serious NCAA Division 1 college basketball program, much less be a starter for said program, much less be considered for the NBA draft, much less be considered for the first round or lottery.  RJ Hunter looked awesome in summer league last year and every single one of those players were invited by NBA teams to compete.  Summer league competition is much inferior to NBA pro camp competition which is WAY inferior to regular season NBA competition, and Maker has yet to compete against even the lowest of those (except for the workout Danny and Brad just put him through, which was against likely low 2nd round or undrafted college players, and we don't know how well he did).  You've heard the expression "you're not even in their league"?  Well, Thon Maker is 2 leagues away from the one he wants to be drafted into next month and that's a big deal.

I will say one thing:  the complete news blackout of Thon Maker's workout with the Celtics is intriguing.  You're hearing some oohs and ahhhs from bloggers of other teams Maker has worked out for but nothing out of Danny etal.  Other players who worked out with Maker were interviewed by the press, comments were made (in general) about them, but not Maker.  Danny's lack of commentary often means something good.  When Danny's talking it's often a smoke screen.  He wouldn't give his mother the correct time of day unless she offered a 2nd rounder for it, otherwise he'd give her the wrong time just to throw her off the scent. If he isn't talking about someone it's often because he's keeping something close to the breast.


bob



.

bobheckler wrote:One thing I think we need to keep in mind with Thon Maker is that everything he has done, all the talent and skills he has displayed so far, have been against prep school kids.  Most of them won't even get into a serious NCAA Division 1 college basketball program, much less be a starter for said program, much less be considered for the NBA draft, much less be considered for the first round or lottery.  RJ Hunter looked awesome in summer league last year and every single one of those players were invited by NBA teams to compete.  Summer league competition is much inferior to NBA pro camp competition which is WAY inferior to regular season NBA competition, and Maker has yet to compete against even the lowest of those (except for the workout Danny and Brad just put him through, which was against likely low 2nd round or undrafted college players, and we don't know how well he did).  You've heard the expression "you're not even in their league"?  Well, Thon Maker is 2 leagues away from the one he wants to be drafted into next month and that's a big deal.

I will say one thing:  the complete news blackout of Thon Maker's workout with the Celtics is intriguing.  You're hearing some oohs and ahhhs from bloggers of other teams Maker has worked out for but nothing out of Danny etal.  Other players who worked out with Maker were interviewed by the press, comments were made (in general) about them, but not Maker.  Danny's lack of commentary often means something good.  When Danny's talking it's often a smoke screen.  He wouldn't give his mother the correct time of day unless she offered a 2nd rounder for it, otherwise he'd give her the wrong time just to throw her off the scent.  If he isn't talking about someone it's often because he's keeping something close to the breast.


bob



.

Maker's played against most of the top prospects of this draft and next year's draft, and even Myles Turner from last year's draft. And he played alongside Jamal Murray, a top 5 pick in this draft.

Most of the teams he's played against for the last 3 years, at two different schools, were stocked with D1 players and a lot of future NBA players.

Not your average high school competition, by any means. The best of the best. These prep schools don't deal with kids who are not D1 prospects at the very least.

And in the summer he's been playing with and against the very best prospects in the country, much like in the winters.

Most players in summer league were never invited to the Nike Hoops Summit, for instance. These All Star type events are arguably a higher level of competition than summer league. Like a summer league all star game.

The projected #1 pick in 2017 is Harry Giles, who is going to Duke and is compared to Chris Webber.

Here are highlights of Thon Maker, top 5 pick Jamal Murray, and projected NBA player Matur Maker (Thon's brother) playing Harry Giles' team.

Maker Vs Giles


Just one example of Maker playing with and against absolutely top notch prospects, who are much better than the average NBA summer league player.

Here is last year's Nike Hoops Summit game, where Maker played with and against most of the top 10 in this draft. Ben Simmons, Brandon Ingram, Jamal Murray, Jaylen Brown, Skal Labissiere, and many more.

Way better talent level than an NBA summer league game. Maker had a game high 10 rebounds, and that was over a year ago. He's since gotten stronger, more skilled, and developed a lot more polish:

Bone to be clear.   I NEVER SAID I hoped Maker would fall between 16-23.  

By changing a word here or there you distort things.  As you know I actually like Maker.  You got the hots for him and are going nuts to sell him.  I got the hots for Hield but there are reasons not to draft him.

I said I think not that I hoped.  Big difference.


Anyways just like I would not take Bender at 3 I would not take Maker there either.  Same reasons.  Both are long and skilled but both are projects.  


At #3 we need someone that can play on day one and even start if needed.  And if he is not available the pick can be traded for a ready to play now veteran with proven talent and a skill set that fills a team need.


Dboss

dboss wrote:Bone to be clear.   I NEVER SAID I hoped Maker would fall between 16-23.  

By changing a word here or there you distort things.  As you know I actually like Maker.  You got the hots for him and are going nuts to sell him.  I got the hots for Hield but there are reasons not to draft him.

I said I think not that I hoped.  Big difference.


Anyways just like I would not take Bender at 3 I would not take Maker there either.  Same reasons.  Both are long and skilled but both are projects.  


At #3 we need someone that can play on day one and even start if needed.  And if he is not available the pick can be traded for a ready to play now veteran with proven talent and a skill set that fills a team need.


Dboss

I wasn't even talking to you, or about you.

bone great effort in bringing us all these clips and information